By Jamie Barber (BonaireTalker - Post #88) on Monday, March 8, 2004 - 3:58 pm: |
Sorry to beat a dead horse! But I thought this curious and would like to know others' thoughts.
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By michael gaynor (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1731) on Monday, March 8, 2004 - 5:19 pm: |
It really sounds shady and I think I know who the company was and it is a shame that they would try to scam you and others. Rest assured it is not a commom practice here!
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By Glen Reem (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1697) on Monday, March 8, 2004 - 5:42 pm: |
Since they said these words, your relating their name here would be a simple statement of fact. And most appreciated by anyone here who might not have had your wisdom in discovering it before renting.
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By John P. Wahlig (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #128) on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 - 10:18 am: |
So please post their name, they are more than welcome to then reply with an explanation of their policies.
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By Jamie Barber (BonaireTalker - Post #89) on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 - 11:14 am: |
Thanks folks for your input. I guess it sounds flaky to others also.
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By Linda Richter - NetTech (Moderator - Post #1706) on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 - 11:29 am: |
One plus is that you found this out before your trip and not the day you arrived - tired and sweaty just hoping to get to your hotel soon.
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By Jamie Barber (BonaireTalker - Post #90) on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 - 11:46 am: |
Absolutely!
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By Marc @ CrystalVisions (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1273) on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 - 5:54 pm: |
I believe one or two rentals have mandatory CDW; Island has tried to find a way to get around the word "mandatory", obviously.
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By Marc @ CrystalVisions (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1274) on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 - 6:07 pm: |
Jamie, to be fair to Island, I think they did their best to help you. The insurance company requires you to decline the CDW and they will need to see proof of that, which is what Island offered you. However, as I explained above, they also want to be covered for the costs. It won't win a beauty contest, but I can understand their reasoning.
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By gregg brewer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #495) on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 - 7:45 pm: |
Marc,
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By Marc @ CrystalVisions (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1275) on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 8:43 am: |
The difference is that with AB, if you decline the insurance, you really decline it; no pay, no insurance, full damages to be paid before leaving the island.
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By Susanf (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #711) on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 9:34 am: |
I have one nit that I didn't realize when we first picked up the truck: at fist we declined CDW (we weren't planning on doing any remote dive sites at least for the first few days). We added insurance later.
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By Glen Reem (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1699) on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 10:47 am: |
Susan,
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By Jamie Barber (BonaireTalker - Post #91) on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 1:28 pm: |
Didn't mean to stir up the hornets!
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By Glen Reem (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1700) on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 2:20 pm: |
Not really very angry or potent hornets!! Just us folks a'talkin. :–)
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By Marc @ CrystalVisions (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1276) on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 3:28 pm: |
Susan, we don't put a $22.000 block on a card (not even sure we could). What we reserve by means of an Authorisation Only request is the rental fee + deductible on the insurance, *even if CDW is declined*. We get an authorisation code, which we later use in an Offline Sale for the actual payment. If that number is not used, the amount stays reserved for a couple of weeks.
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By Susanf (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #714) on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 3:42 pm: |
Actually, I rented from AB Car rental.
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By Susanf (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #715) on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 3:48 pm: |
Marc,
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By Jamie Barber (BonaireTalker - Post #92) on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 4:01 pm: |
Marc,
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By Bob Lyke (BonaireTalker - Post #32) on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 4:28 pm: |
A lot of American credit cards will put a hold on the card if it is used outside the United States unless you call the card first and inform them that you are traveling. This is especially true if they see a large dollar charge from out of the country. This is for fraud and theft protection. I had two MBNA cards turned off in September when I was in Bonaire. A little embarrassing when I tried to charge my room service on the last night at the Harbour Village and my card was turned down, and then my girlfriend's card was turned down. Glad I travel with more than one card.
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By Susanf (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #716) on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 4:33 pm: |
Ah, that may have been what happened - I know Citibank takes that sort of thing seriously (as an aside, I love their new identity-theft commercials)
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By Linda Richter - NetTech (Moderator - Post #1712) on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 4:47 pm: |
FYi on the last bit - You can call your credit card company in advance of a trip and have them put a note on your record that you are travel in a certain country for a given period of time. It doesn't stop the automatic hold but when security goes to make the call to your billing phone number they usually see the info and can reverse the hold without bothering you. But this also means you should probably carry the non-800 number for your credit card if you are traveling outside the USA so you can clear up these things during your trip.
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By Angela Cristan (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #331) on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 5:05 pm: |
FYI- This doesn't just hold for credit cards, but also bank cards- the bank will put a stop or at least an alert on your card/account to inform them that you were indeed in another country spending money due to internet capabilities nowadays! Bank cards don't always guarantee protection either even though you can use them just like a credit card, so I agree with Linda and no matter what types of cards (credit/debit/ATM/etc...) alert the necessay people so you don't get stuck! I know I don't travel with credit cards, I don't even own one because I've seen what they can do to people. My ATM card has the VISA logo and works just as well, but comes out of my checking! I still alert my bank when I travel though so they don't shut me down until they contact me!
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By Marc @ CrystalVisions (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1277) on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 5:19 pm: |
Thanks Bob, for pointing that out... I was seriously starting to doubt myself for a second. Even worse, I knew that, but it didn't cross my mind (it's the wedding coming up, I guess ).
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By Cynde (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #10694) on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 5:33 pm: |
Interesting food for thought, as we're leaving for Sint Maarten in 2 days
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By Marc @ CrystalVisions (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1278) on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 5:54 pm: |
No, not nervous... But a bit stressed to get everything done before taking off for a couple of days .
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By Cynde (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #10695) on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 6:07 pm: |
Well congratulations in advance, and tell Kitty we'll be there in spirit Friday
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By Yana girl (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #150) on Thursday, March 11, 2004 - 5:22 pm: |
Linda, You hit the nail on the head. This is off topic but I just had to share. We call our credit card company and let them know ahead of time what countries we will be visiting and our US exit/entry points. In 1993 Craig was on business in Caracas and paid his hotel bill with our personal CC instead of using a business cc and one year later to the DATE our CC number was used to buy air tickets to RIO and $450 worth of shoes. We had a hassle from the cc company because according to them we were considered high rate travelers (?) and they wanted certified proof that we were not out of the country when the charge was made. We had to send certified copies of our passport pages showing entry and exits to the US. Bummer. In June of 2000 we took a dive trip on a live aboard out of Miami. We were hit again. The only time we used our cc was to pay for our hotel in South Beach. This time we were saved but only after $4,000 was charged in San Juan in 24 hours and the cc company had on file we were visiting Miami and the Bahamas. Most of our trips are now paid for in advance and we use travelers checks for the rest of the trip.
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By Leif S (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #224) on Monday, March 15, 2004 - 2:56 pm: |
I'll wager that it is illegal to make the CDW mandatory, especially if it is not clearly disclosed up front. I'd go to a different agency.
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By Martin de Weger (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3143) on Monday, March 15, 2004 - 4:33 pm: |
Leif, If I may put in just my 2 cents here... I doubt if you are correct.
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By Jamie Barber (BonaireTalker - Post #94) on Monday, March 15, 2004 - 4:48 pm: |
Since I started this mess, I'll chime in here.
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By Martin de Weger (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3144) on Monday, March 15, 2004 - 4:59 pm: |
Jamie, So there was proof, the only problem is to get the money from the US (or canadian) based insurance company to Bonaire. Write a claim report, have correspondence between the US and Bonaire... I think I understand the point of the rental agency...
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By Marc @ CrystalVisions (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1281) on Monday, March 15, 2004 - 5:30 pm: |
Let me indeed clear something up here. Leif, we don't even TRY to avoid dealing with insurance companies abroad... We simply do NOT deal with, negotiate with, or even contact the insurance company of the renter for the reasons Martin has already stated (plus some practical others). If the renter declines the CDW insurance, he accepts FULL responsibility for the car, personally. If something goes wrong, he has to deal with us directly and pay for the damages before leaving the island. Whether or not he will get this money back from his insurance is also his own responsibility. We will provide the bill and contract as proof of what was paid and what for, which should be enough.
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By James Taylor no not that James Taylor ( Post #1) on Monday, March 15, 2004 - 5:56 pm: |
I hope everyone understands that if you get into trouble in a foreign country the smiles and friendly faces that accepted your dollars will be replaced by angry faces and a hostile police force. Bonaire is no different. If Marc is standing at the immigrations counter with a credit card charge for $5000 then you will sign it before you walk to the airplane. If this is legal does not matter. If the charges are inflated does not matter. If you will loose the cost of the airline tickets it does not matter. You will sign the credit card authorization or you will not leave and more than likely you will wait until funds are actually received in Bonaire. After many years of international travel I still feel a great sense of relief when the wheels touch down on US soil.
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By Leif S (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #225) on Monday, March 15, 2004 - 7:44 pm: |
Just as I thought, it's more than anythign else just a matter of the convenience of the rental company versus the disparately low bargaining power of the renter. Even without a written confirmation, simply calling the toll-free number on the back of the credit card would yield the same answer. So, the REAL reason for the whole CDW/insurance issue is the the rental company does not WANT to deal with a large, legitimate U.S. insurance company. Could this stem from not wanting to be scrutinized for suspected fraud such as overcharging the value of repair or trying to charge someone for an entire TIRE (or tyre, depending on your point of origin) when a much cheaper inner tube or even just a patch is all that is called for? The more Marc says about this the more I am convinced of my position.
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By Brian (bcj.) (BonaireTalker - Post #38) on Monday, March 15, 2004 - 9:40 pm: |
As I understand it, there are a variety of auto rental agencies on the island. I'm sure they'd appreciate the business.
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By seb schulherr (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1466) on Monday, March 15, 2004 - 9:49 pm: |
Leif, are you aware that it is standard practice for many big, legitimate, medical insurers to ignore doctor bills until they are sent a fourth time? Because most people get discouraged after three billings and give up. A big, "legitimate" company can ignore some franchised small potato rental company in Bonaire.
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By seb schulherr (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1467) on Monday, March 15, 2004 - 10:00 pm: |
I think I just heard Marc's sigh of relief all the way up here.
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By Leif S (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #226) on Tuesday, March 16, 2004 - 10:29 am: |
Hey, I didn't say life is completely fair... but I try to shift the leverage a bit over to the side of the "little guy" whenever possible. I have represented both sides, so I understand where Marc is coming from. But to express the attitude that customers are generally either stupid or conniving goes against the whole character of Bonaire. If he had said that onerous policies are employed to protect against the 1% of tourists that can truly make life miserable (anyone remember Mimi?) I might not have ranted as I did, although I would still stand by my argument.
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By Cecil Berry (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3274) on Tuesday, March 16, 2004 - 10:40 am: |
I'm with you, Seb and Marc. Seems to me when you sign for the car and decline CDW, you are responsible for the car and it's contents. What happen to personal responsibility? Why should a small rental car agency in Bonaire have to deal with your credit card company? Could you get stiffed on the charges, sure. Part of the price of overseas travel (and well worth it in my book).
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By Bob Lyke (BonaireTalker - Post #33) on Tuesday, March 16, 2004 - 11:47 am: |
I don't think things are different here in the states. My old roommate rented a truck, declined the insurance and had an accident. The rental company did not work through my friends personal insurance company. The rental agency went to him for their money and they expected him to deal with his insurance company.
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By Marc @ CrystalVisions (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1283) on Tuesday, March 16, 2004 - 1:24 pm: |
What's more, if you have credit card insurance, and you've caused damages, the credit card company EXPECTS you to pay for the amount *with your card*, and claim it from them. Of course they do! That's where they make their money from! They get their 4-5% commission of the damage amount, and will probably have insured themselves against these cases with a real insurance company. Mind you, as a merchant we are not allowed to add those 4% to the bill at the risk of loosing our merchantship. So it's coming out of our pocket.
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By Glen Reem (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1704) on Tuesday, March 16, 2004 - 5:11 pm: |
Points all made, all around, I think.
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By Leif S (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #229) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 2:55 pm: |
I have re-checked the research.
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By gregg brewer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #497) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 5:58 pm: |
I rented a car last year (in the U.S.) with my gold VISA. Upon checkin, the rental car agent claim there was a dent in the rear bumper..although I knew nothing about the dent, I turned the rental company claim over to VISA. VISA was very helpful and paid as advertised. The only think I had to provide to VISA was a statement from my insurance company indicating my deductable. The rental company did not DEMAND payment at the scene.
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By Marc @ CrystalVisions (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1286) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 6:03 pm: |
That's all fine and good, but let's try putting it to practice on a Caribbean island, shall we? No, let's not, because it WILL cost us money and an incredible amount of time. Heck, I've sent mails to Amex and Mastercard requesting info on this subject, and got back NOT ONE reply.
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By Leif S (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #230) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 8:25 pm: |
Marc, I was ready to quit this thread, but now feel specific rebuttals are due regarding your last:
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By seb schulherr (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1470) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 9:38 pm: |
Get a donkey.
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By Glen Reem (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1705) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 10:29 pm: |
I would suggest that Leif needs to follow that old American Indian adage and 'walk a mile in Marc's mocassins' before making so many absolute statements about what should/can be done by a business on Bonaire.
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By Carole Baker (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3272) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 11:48 pm: |
May this thread rest in peace.....
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By Marc @ CrystalVisions (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1288) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 8:26 am: |
Amen (said the atheist )
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By Leif S (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #231) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 3:03 pm: |
Seb, that is the best idea I've heard all week.
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By Martin Beckman (BonaireTalker - Post #59) on Monday, March 22, 2004 - 5:23 pm: |
As someone who is in the insurance industry, most of the speakers at the continuing ed seminars I attend generally recommend buying the CDW insurance .... if you don't have a Diner's Club card or other rental car insurance that provides primary coverage. That's even for us insurance agents. If you do a lot of traveling and can justify the annual card fee ($95 I think), you get primary CDW on rental cars (I don't think it extends to PU trucks or vans). http://www.dinersclubnorthamerica.com/US/en/diners_club.jhtml?pageId=us_02_04_03_05
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By Mike M. (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #2) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 12:54 am: |
I think it's a tough call all around. Each circumstance will dictate the situation.
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By Marc @ CrystalVisions (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1290) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 11:06 am: |
Yeah, we're just a bunch of crooks out to rip people off and then laugh in their face...
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By Glen Reem (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1710) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 11:19 am: |
Easy, Marc!! Non carborundum est. :–)
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By Martin de Weger (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3166) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 12:41 pm: |
Marc, I'm glad you finally admit that... Just Kidding...
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By seb schulherr (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1478) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 2:58 pm: |
Oh for goodness sakes, some folk need to grow up and learn to research their trip before they go, and let go of their petty peeves before they leave. Pick up the phone and call your credit card company and find out the facts. Most rental companies on Bonaire have websites with rates with and without insurance costs, all the math done for you.
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By Mary Wills (BonaireTalker - Post #87) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 3:06 pm: |
Mike M,
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By Carole Baker (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3297) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 6:39 pm: |
I guess there was a resurrection here.....I thought it had "rested in peace"...apparently not! Carole
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By Mike M. (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #3) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 9:23 pm: |
I do my research at home, in fact I rarely get ripped off because I learned to double check at the rental agencies to see if the price I am paying is what I was told or saw on the web site. I tend to read what I am signing, THE ACTUAL CONTRACT. Not some web site. I have had many rental car experiences that were good. But there are plenty that aren't. When I was in playa del carmen trying to rent a car from several places that the CDW insurance rates changed by the hour or the fast talking on what they would cover and not cover. Or when I was on the Virgin Islands and the AVIS rental car attendant said just leave the keys without anyone checking the car. But they tried to imply that a certain scratch was not there before. Or when I was in Moscow and the rates suddenly changed due to the fact that my car was not available anymore, shall I go on.....Oh, we only accept Mastercard Gold for CDW otherwise you have to pay for it.... it is mandatory I was told.
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By Mike M. (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #4) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 9:33 pm: |
Marc,
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By Glen Reem (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1712) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 10:10 pm: |
Isn''t it about time that this thread was formally declared dead?
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By Mike M. (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #5) on Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 3:16 am: |
My apologies all. No more posts from me.
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By Carole Baker (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3302) on Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 3:40 am: |
It's nothing personal, Mike....you know that, I hope! Ayo. Carole
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By Marc @ CrystalVisions (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1291) on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 9:35 am: |
Mike, I didn't feel attacked or insulted personally. You say one in three, but I know my colleagues and I can't think of a single one that would deliberately rip someone off. Sure, there are discussions and some follow their terms&conditions more rigidly than others. But "fair" also means "taking responsibility" for something that is not yours to do with as you please. "Fair" would be to pay for that dent, and for us to repair it when there is time; not sooner, if it's not absolutely nescessary, because we won't charge for the days the car is in the workshop and can't be rented.
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By Leif S (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #232) on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 1:28 pm: |
Mary, since you mentioned the COMFY CHAIR, all I can say is "noone expects thee Spanish Inquisition!"
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By christine Hughes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #368) on Monday, March 29, 2004 - 6:14 pm: |
Marc
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By Mike M. (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #9) on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 2:03 am: |
Marc,
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By Debbie Crosby (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #4) on Friday, April 2, 2004 - 1:19 pm: |
Just one more thought on this rental car theft/damage thread...Before we left for Bonaire, I emailed the manager of Budget rental car knowing that our truck would be rented from them. I expressed my concerns about the problems and what can we as the renter do to try and keep things from happening while we are diving. His suggestion was to park where we could watch our truck. I emailed back and asked how we could do this at 60 feet under the water? His response then was "if we were so concerned about the problems, then perhaps we shouldn't rent a truck - in fact, perhaps we shouldn't even come to Bonaire!" This was not very reassuring at all. We did continue with our rental and used the lock/chain method for the spare that we learned about on this site and kept nothing but our tee shirts and a bottle of water and extra tanks in the truck with doors unlocked and windows down. We did not have a single problem. But we had paid for the CDW in advance to just protect ourselves a little more - an extra $100 added to the rental and if we had a problem, it would have been another $300 deductible! But all in all, everything worked out well even if the manager has an attitude!
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By gregg brewer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #503) on Friday, April 2, 2004 - 1:38 pm: |
please let this die
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By Carole Baker (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3328) on Friday, April 2, 2004 - 6:59 pm: |
I think Lt. Columbo is running this thread...Oh, just one more question/thing.....No mas, No mas!!!! Carole
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