By Otis Neil Godbee (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #1) on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 1:41 pm: |
July 23, 2004
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By Susanf (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #796) on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 2:29 pm: |
Otis,
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By Susanf (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #797) on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 2:32 pm: |
Excuse me, that should have been "Neil"
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By Otis Neil Godbee (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #3) on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 2:46 pm: |
Thanks Susan,
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By Chris Gianos (BonaireTalker - Post #33) on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 2:46 pm: |
This is really sad. And it seems like the police are not doing anything about this. I was there for the second time one three weeks ago but I am really glad we did not rent a house like we had originally planned. I may still come back again but I would not feel safe in any sort of house, only somewhere with security.
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By Otis Neil Godbee (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #4) on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 3:06 pm: |
Chris,
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By Chris Gianos (BonaireTalker - Post #34) on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 3:40 pm: |
I would want a guard on site at all times, not just someone that stops by on occassion patroling a wider area. The problem with rental houses is that the bad guys must know which ones they are and they probably have many entry points and more privacy than a hotel or condo. I would think that companies renting out houses would be very active looking for solutions here because some more incidents like this may well put them out of business.
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By Linda Richter - NetTech (Moderator - Post #1910) on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 3:45 pm: |
Not to be picky about your situation but in your years of enforcement have you ever heard of a spray to make people stay asleep during a breakin?
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By Wally and Eva (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #413) on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 5:22 pm: |
Sorry to hear that report Captain. I suspect the Bib County Sheriff would have a bit of trouble getting re-elected if his office performed at the incompetency level you described for the Bonaire Police. Bet you were slack jawed at the local law's lack of response.
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By Carl Pflanzer (BonaireTalker - Post #80) on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 5:47 pm: |
Neil-
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By Otis Neil Godbee (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #5) on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 6:09 pm: |
Thanks so much for everyone's positive feedback thus far. As to your question Linda in reference to the spray comment...in most cases burglary are what we call sneak thieves and the last thing they want is a confrontation of any kind That is why most burglaries occur when homeowners are away or at work. Also most burglaries of secured areas such as houses occur during daylight hours instead of nigh time hours. Most night burglaries are of business, car lots, etc. As far as the spray goes I have never personally heard of such a device being used but I do know that you can procure a form of ether in a spray can that is used in starting of diesel truck motors in extreme cold conditions. I do know of an incident when I was in the army back in the 70's when one of two guys fighting sprayed the other with this particular substance and he dropped him like a rock instantly. I can also say that if there is any way a criminal can come up with something new to aid him or her in their criminal activity...they will. Most of the general public would be surprised to know how ingenious a great percentage of the criminals are.
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By Martin Sweeney (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #6) on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 6:14 pm: |
It seems so sad that for "whatever" reasons, the general public both in and outside of Bonaire are not getting the total crime picture in Bonaire. Many of the long time posters on this board seem to have heard of so few such incidents. In the short time I have joined in, four such home invasions where people were at home and potentially in harms way. I am a one time visitor (one day) who was about to make reservations for 10 days next spring but now have some reservations about making my reservations. I will have to give a long think about visiting this beautiful island. In my own thirty nine years of law enforcement with NYPD I have never heard of any such disabling spray, a la James Bond!!!!
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By Glen Reem (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1800) on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 6:44 pm: |
Linda or someone still on island,
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By Denise Kacavas (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #754) on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 7:48 pm: |
AS much as I love being in Bonaire, all these reports are getting to me.
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By Martin Sweeney (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #7) on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 8:19 pm: |
Denise, I couldn't agree more with your concern over current incidents. This is more than a modicum of serious crime. I am dying to go back in the spring but regretably have to step back and rethink my decision. No offense to any BT'ers or the people of Bonaire intended.
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By John Matheson (BonaireTalker - Post #18) on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 8:21 pm: |
OK, Kevlar/Nomex helmet placed firmly on head and prepared for the inevitable flames I jump in.
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By Kay Powers (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #825) on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 8:22 pm: |
Captain,
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By Shannon Harris (BonaireTalker - Post #27) on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 8:37 pm: |
This type of situation is getting well out of hand. First the "kids" were stealing stuff out of trucks at the dive site and now things have escalated to the point where the thieves are now breaking into LOCKED HOMES WHILE PEOPLE ARE SLEEPING!!!
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By jos van osnabrugge (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1325) on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 8:38 pm: |
must have been a horrible experience!!!
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By Pam Redmond (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #1) on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 9:48 pm: |
Who would be committing these crimes? Normally a home is burgularized while no one is there and TVs, stereos microwaves etc. are stolen. This was done intentionally while people were there for a purpose. The purpose could be for cash, DVD players etc., things a teenager could use and a vehicle for a joy ride. What else are you going to do with a stolen vehicle on a small island. A mature thief would have a use for credit cards and not leave them strewn across the premises.
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By Terry Helms (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #1) on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 9:50 pm: |
Thank you so much sjossss for confirming the spray. I am Teri and I was traveling with Neil. My room was one of the rooms they came into. I am a very light sleeper and when I am in a new place, even lighter sleeper. I could not understand how they opened a noisy sliding glass door, come across the room and remove items from the nightstand. The watch they took was no more than 12 inches from my head.I never heard anything. As for Carl, the plane is what woke me up. I reached for my husband's watch and couldn't find it. I just thought he moved it after I went to bed, so I went back to sleep. John, I would also advise you to check your homeowners insurance before you leave to see if you are covered for personal losses.The other rooms that were broken into were my two sons. One was with his girlfriend (Neil's daughter) and the other was on his honeymoon. How would you like that memory for your honeymoon? And finally Kay, I too hope you never have to experience first hand what we did. I thank everyone for their support.
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By Ann Phelan (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1447) on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 10:56 pm: |
This is unreal. Well, it's not isolated to Bonaire.
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By jos van osnabrugge (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1329) on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 11:54 pm: |
Terry and Neil ,
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By bob (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1228) on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 12:16 am: |
an anti sleeping gas attack device???
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By Kay Powers (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #827) on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 12:28 am: |
They are out there...
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By Carole Baker (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3815) on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 1:09 am: |
This is frightening, to say the least. Joe and I stayed in a lovely home in the Santa Barbara hills recently and our bedroom did not have direct access/connection to the main portion of the house. This concerned us and we took a butcher knife into the bedroom with us and left it there for the week....the thought of someone entering the room concerned us with the layout of the property, but the thought of someone using this type of anesthetic is totally frightening and leaves one with a feeling of helplessness and total vulnerability. We did keep the bedroom door locked and bolted but I was still not at total ease. If we had not had our own cellphone there would have been no way to contact the "outside world" if something had occurred.....but it sounds as though no one would have responded, anyway, if we had made an emergency help call to the "authorities". A friend of ours who lives on Bonaire had advised us it would be OK to contact him, directly, in case of an emergency. I did feel much better knowing someone was out there to reach out to, if necessary. Very generous offer and much appreciated by the two of us.
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By Carole Baker (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3816) on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 1:18 am: |
It took me so long to post my thoughts that Jos and Kay had posted two more entries....this is amazing. It seems to be more common than thought. Detectors...wow. I wonder if they will make them portable and battery operated for travelers?? Wow...what a thought...having to travel with an anesthetic detector....what has this world come to? Carole
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By Kay Powers (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #829) on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 1:27 am: |
Hopefully that is not what is going on in Bonaire....No one that I am aware of has confirmed that. So as far as I am concerned it is only speculation. It obviously goes on in other places in the world. Something new to me for sure.
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By michael gaynor (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1762) on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 10:15 am: |
As an owner of a business that depends on tourism for its existance, I am appalled at the the lack of response to the increasing threat to the islands livelihood. While statistically your chance of being a victim is slight, it is nevertheless a real threat that visitors must take seriously and guard against the possiblilty of a crime occuring. The car rental places need to be more precise and tell rentors that they have the option of different insurance coverage. As for Sun Rentals, I will only say that they don't own the properties they rent but should be more proactive in contacting their owners and setting a standard that at least has a wall safe in each property and also post warnings in each unit they rent alerting the client to take measures to safequard their property. All the crime meetings and public protest walks, etc. don't seem to have worked to date and we still suffer from these morons who don't seem to get it. It will take more money and better police work to catch these guys. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Bonaire is facing a critical point in time and with the wide choices open to visitors, they will stop coming and soon we will not have to worry about crimes against tourists....there wont be any!
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By Denise Kacavas (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #756) on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 10:40 am: |
While my concern on this issue is very sincere I do not want to lose sight of a couple of the precautions we can take - besides lock everything up and now maybe use anti sleeping gas attack devices (!!) ... be sure to take the fullest car insurance possible, stay someplace that is NOT secluded and IS well guarded. Michael, you are so right, this potentially will hurt Bonaire businesses and I would hate to see this happen to people like you and Luty!
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By Tom Brossard (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #2) on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 10:40 am: |
How scary. I've always been of the "it's just petty crime" camp but these recent reports indicate a major change and I feel bad that previous Bonaire antagonists were beaten into submission by apologists (like me) on this board. It seems that where there is smoke there REALLY is fire.
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By Tom Brossard (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #3) on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 10:44 am: |
Thanks Michael, you responded as I was composing and addressed most of my concerns, and I always appreciate your view...
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By Joe Urso (BonaireTalker - Post #39) on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 10:54 am: |
Two words.. The Grenadines.. Went to Bequia in May and without a doubt, we never locked a door or window, and were treated like true welcomed guests to the island and it's reefs. I'll not go back to the ABCs.. Life is too short to look over your shoulder on vacation..
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By Vince DePietro (BonaireTalker - Post #40) on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 10:59 am: |
Neil...with much regret I have read your posting.. Our sympathies are with you.. For you to have this experience is absolutely horrible & I might add if something like this ever happened to me, I'd never set foot on the island again (& I've been coming to Bonaire for the last 20 yrs).. Thank-you for sharing this with us..And thanks also for the moderators of this board for making this info available to all.
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By Denise Kacavas (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #757) on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 11:41 am: |
Vince, I did not mean to imply that taking the full insurance is my choice - rather that if I have to rent a car it may be the best option.
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By James T. McPeak (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #252) on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 1:09 pm: |
In our 8 trips to Bonaire, nothing in the way of crime has ever come to us. However, this last trip, June 23 to July 14th brought some unfortunate changes to our above situation. While staying at the Dive Inn, across from Cha Cha, we had our dive stuff drying in the outside lockup. We went out that evening and forgot to bring it inside the room. The next morning we discovered that both masks, my fins, my regulator were gone. Our BCD's and Kathi's reg were drying on the ground. They did not get that. The stuff that was stolen was on a table. My guess is they got it using some kind of pole, over the wire to lift it. While down there, this trip, a spare was also stolen out of my vehicle. It is getting out of control. The illustrious Governor of Bonaire should really stop having lunch at Cappricios all the time and pay attention to what is happening to his deteriorating island. When I went up to the police to file the report, I felt as though I was in the Twilight Zone. They just wrote some stuff down and gave me a piece of paper. When I went to Bruce to purchase a new mask, fins, etc. he informed me that about 12 prisoners were just let out of jail because the conditions in the jail were not that "good." I have a friend on the island, who is also a dive master at Divi. He also owns a gift shop and makes jewelry. He informed me that his house has been robbed 5 times. This "don't give a s*** attitude" by his excellency and the police will surely become the demise of a once great place in the sun.
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By T-Shirt Divers John and Sue (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #123) on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 1:37 pm: |
As a victim of three crimes in my own state, I hope I'm never a victim again. The material loss is serious as well as the psychological effect. Eventhough it's been a few years, it seems like yesterday. It's something one never forgets. Now I live in a home with safes, guns and security systems and a car with alarms and anti-thief devices, just for some peace of mind. Sue
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By Israel A. Sanchez (BonaireTalker - Post #46) on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 2:31 pm: |
Neil, I'm terribly sorry to read about the ordeal that you went through during a time that was supposed to be joyful and relaxing. It's a shame to see how quickly the crimes have escalated. When my wife and I were there in January, car break-ins were still a shocking event. Now it seems that they are expected and people simply shrug it off as a "bad luck" event, with the criminals becoming more daring, even going as far as threatening with bodily harm (you can bet that a few neurons were given early retirement after inhaling those gases). This is beyond petty theft. At least the attitude of the members of Bonaire Talk has changed a lot in regards to these situation. It used to be that their typical response was burying their heads in the sand and replying with the overused "crime occurs everywhere", or "Bonaire is still safe", or "Bonaire has one of the lowest crime rates" Incidentally, I would like to know who came up with those stats. When I Bonaire, every local I spoke to had been a victim of a crime (theft, break-in) or came very close to becoming one (thieves scared away, dog came to the rescue). I suppose the Government came up (or made up) those numbers to justify their indifference. I don't know about you guys, but in my book, when the high officials show indifference to an escalating situation, know of the perpetrators, and yet fail to react, it is because they are also involved in some level. I feel terribly sorry for the great people I met there and have to deal with those situations daily (people like Mike Gaynor, Amina Kromodimedjo, Suzy Swygert, Hendrik Wuyts, Hensley, our server at the Tipsy Seagull, perhaps the best server we've ever had in our restaurant experience, and so many other terrific people) I hope the government does take action as they "promised". I cancelled my reservations for March 2005 yesterday. I hope bugman Bud Gillian is safe in there right now. Were I were traveling alone or with a bunch of guys like in the bachelor days, I would not care much. But I don't think it would be smart to bring my loved ones to a place where unpleasant situations keep getting out of control AND NOTHING is being done about it. I don't want to spend extra money buying gas detectors or paying extra insurance. I could use that money for a boat dive or a cold polar during the sunset. Besides, Joe Urso is right. You do not need to be looking over your shoulder while on vacation. Coach Izzy
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By Israel A. Sanchez (BonaireTalker - Post #47) on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 2:38 pm: |
Ooof!! An awful number of grammatical mistakes! I guess I'm not much of a proof-reader. My apologies! Coach Izzy
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By Carl Pflanzer (BonaireTalker - Post #81) on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 2:52 pm: |
Wow.
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By Carole Baker (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3823) on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 3:12 pm: |
We had a huge butcher knife next to the bed with us, Carl. We can't transport Joe's gun so the knife had to suffice. Not a nice feeling. We will be back at the Divi for our full two weeks this next trip. I hope that the resorts are watching this board to see how folks are REALLY looking to them for additional security and peace of mind. I'll bet the villa rental numbers will keep going down if the crime rate keeps going up. Very sad, indeed. I won't give up on Bonaire, tho...love her too much to abandon her now. If we can fight crime over the Internet we will do it....it must start on the island with the local authorities, however. They must now make a major move to curb this activity now before it's too late, just as Michael indicated above. And long before it turns into a murder/homicide statistic. Remember...we are in this with the locals, too, as they are also victims. We must find a way to work together to curb this threatening activity.
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By T-Shirt Divers John and Sue (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #124) on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 3:43 pm: |
I suppose the spray has the same effect on dogs.?
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By Linnea Wijkhof-Wimberly (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #732) on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 4:27 pm: |
I was thinking about buying a rental place on Bonaire. A small house or villa, but with the last two major incidents reported on BT, I am rethinking my options. If I do buy a stand-alone house or villa, it will at the very least:
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By Tom Brossard (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #4) on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 6:30 pm: |
Linnea, I agree with your thinking but isn't it sad that a home in peaceful, little Bonaire would need to have bars on the windows. IMO, this is very symbolic of an area in decline...
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By Kay Powers (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #830) on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 8:10 pm: |
The sad thing is that burglaries have happened on properties that have security. When I was there in June I heard of 4 different room or house burglaries......More and more people are not leaving things in the cars anymore because of the word spreading not to do so and therefore, the thieves have had to resort to the hotel rooms, rented houses etc to get any goods. One good sting operation along with more patrolling by local enforcement officers would sure help the situation. Maybe they need a Crime Stoppers program. Money tends to make quite a few people talk. I wonder if the local businesses are burglarized as much as the tourists and locals are? The petty stuff like theft of flip flops, tshirts are becoming a thing of the past. There is more go get in peoples homes and hotel rooms and the longer they get away with it, the more thugs that will join in the game. When you can end up with $3,000 in cash, dvd players, camera and dive equipment in a matter of say 10 minutes, who is going to go get a honest job for $800 a month unless there are consequences they have to face. I wish there was something we could do here to help the situation but unfortunately at some point we'll have to make a choice not to go back. I would hate to have to go with only the clothes on my back, prepay everything before you go, rent all dive equipment and return it daily so in the event your room is broken into you don't have to pay for the stolen equipment.....go with nothing and they have nothing to take. hmmm......the new Bonaire...Come as you are island. This island is too special to let it get to that point. What can we do?
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By Carole Baker (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3826) on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 8:52 pm: |
Bars are already appearing on the windows.....cb
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By Susanf (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #798) on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 8:59 pm: |
This is very sad. And infuriating: "Police are very familiar with the faces of many of these intruders and can make an arrest based on the photo." That says to me that these people have been arrested before.
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By Dean Botsford (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #317) on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 9:03 pm: |
http://britishexpats.com/arch/44/2003/5/151777 Interesting thread on 'sleeping gas'. Very good point made in the first post.
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By Susanf (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #799) on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 9:05 pm: |
My husband tells me there is an ether spray that is used by boaters to get a diesel engine going. It's very common. If this is the same thing, thieves have just found a new use for it.
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By Dean Botsford (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #318) on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 9:12 pm: |
Just an aside, I would be more afraid of a fire due to ether and an errrant spark than it being used to knock someone out...
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By Kelly Jo Lott (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1464) on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 9:44 pm: |
Otis, I am so sorry for your terrible experience. There are no words when you have been victimized in this way. I am staying near you, in Belnem, on the road to Sorobon. Just now, I was coming in from taking a friend home, and saw the security people, Wowo di Baro (I am CERTAIN I spelled that incorrectly, I apologize) on foot patrol walking down the road. I stopped at my house, and went out and introduced myself to them. They are patrolling with flashlights, looking at vehicles, license plates, etc. I have to admit after reading of your horrible experience, I was so happy to see them. More neighborhoods should do this, yes it costs money, but it is worth it for peace of mind.
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By DIVER DEBBI (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #405) on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 10:19 pm: |
after our experience of being robbed in the middle of the night two years ago, we returned to Bonaire again last year hoping it was not "our turn " again only to have the licence plates stolen off the rental car..we can relate to your emotional and physical distress...not what a vacation time should be..but I really feel bad for the people of Bonaire who don't seem to beable to get this problem under control..it's an option for me to dive , relax and spend my $$ elsewhere...they have to live there...I love the island and it's people...again what can we do to help ?I'm sad we may not return in 2005...also a tip...make sure the bars on the windows are mounted on the INSIDE..ours were pried off with a crowbar and entry made thru the window
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By Bud Gillan (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #130) on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 10:33 pm: |
Now that the conch, lobsters, and reefs are protected, it is time to protect the residents and tourists on Bonaire. This week will change Bonaire's history. Rumors and reputations, real or imagined, are like getting salt in the well. It is impossible to get out. Each of us needs to contact the police and governor with our "turning point" concerns. I have been coming to Bonaire since 1966 and nothing can compare to what I am hearing in the last 2 days.
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By Tom Whitney (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #7) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 12:47 am: |
This is truly the last thing you expect to happen while on vacation. I am in a resort type business in Wisconsin and have had several occasions to confront people who we need to contain or arrest. Being an avid hunter and shooter I have many weapons at my disposal. I never have any kind of weapon on my possession. Our natural reaction is to have some sort of weapon for self defense close at hand should the occasion arise. Please people beware - whatever weapon you may choose to have at hand may be used against you by the perpetrator. Better to be missing some money and personal belongings than a loved one. I am in no way suggesting that we take a back seat to this kind of crime, I only suggest not letting you get yourself into a dangerous situation with an invader and a weapon you may not be familiar with and not ready to use in a moments notice. Remember, there are many "accidents" that occur due to a person having a weapon by their bedside and a child or house guest coming into the bedroom.
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By Carole Baker (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3831) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 12:52 am: |
Good suggestion, Tom. I recall seeing a flick years ago called "There's a gun in the House" and it was a history of one gun and its travels...the one story which made a lasting impression on me was a woman who wanted to have it for protection and in the end, she ended up shooting her own daughter in the dark in the kitchen one night...dead.
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By Vince DePietro (BonaireTalker - Post #41) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 7:08 am: |
Dean..Your comments on St Croix ring with me..I was involved on the Island in the early 80's with tourism..And for many many years after the "Fountain Valley" incident people on & off island were talking about it. This did incredible financial damage to the Island in terms of dollars lost from tourism..In fact it's one of the reasons I sold out. Lets keep our fingers crossed that the situation on Bonaire does not morph into something similar..
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By Ann Phelan (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1448) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 7:15 am: |
St. Croix still suffers from this incident (my architect brother in law lives there ). Murder of course is another story..scary stuff..
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By Bert van Barneveld (BonaireTalker - Post #28) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 7:39 am: |
Bonaire is part of the Dutch Antilles. And therefor an independent state within the Dutch kingdom. They have their own government etc. We (here in Holland) are aware of the Antilles politics and I'm not surprised that they are not capable of handling the situation. There government is a joke, the prime minister last year was the sister of a mr. Godet, who good not be installed as minister, because he was charged for corruption (and being convicted in the mean time). We have a huge problem here in Holland with juvenile delinquents who come from the Antilles and can stay here without a visa. One of the measures is that we have a 100% check of all passengers who come from the islands to Holland checking for drugs. The antilles (mainly Curacao) are one of the main drug routes from South America to Europe.
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By Jeff Stine (BonaireTalker - Post #56) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 8:28 am: |
Neil, I'm sorry that this incident happened to you and your family.
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By Otis Neil Godbee (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #6) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 9:19 am: |
Jeff,
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By Brigitte Kley (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #128) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 9:21 am: |
We are more than angry that nothing happens for years now. Remember the big protest in may 2000 ??? We were asking for Dutch police, but that request has in the political system to come from the central government in Curacao, and they don't do it and the Netherlands does not accept a request directly from Bonaire. There will be a referendum on the 10th of September about the future status of Bonaire, one of the options is Bonaire to have a direct link to the Netherlands ....
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By Brigitte Kley (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #129) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 9:30 am: |
Kelly, the Wowo di Barios you met on the road to Sorobon, are paid by Coco Palm Garden & Casa Oleander, by Ocean View Villas, Jake Richter, who now lives on the road and Inez, the owner of Casablanca Restaurant, who also lives here. They are walking the 4 streets on which our properties are located. All together there are perhaps 70 houses here, we together are only 13 houses who pay .... and not everybody is as nice to them as you have been , thanks !!!!
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By Peter Cabus (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #285) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 9:55 am: |
Hi Brigitte,
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By Otis Neil Godbee (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #7) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 10:03 am: |
To all talkers that may be in Bonaire at this time or will be there shortly:
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By Brigitte Kley (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #130) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 10:20 am: |
Peter
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By Peter Cabus (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #286) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 10:50 am: |
Brigitte,
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By Jake Richter (Moderator - Post #4995) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 11:04 am: |
To elaborate further on Brigitte's reply, "Wowo di Bario" means "Eyes of the Neighborhood", and is basically a neighborhood watch program run by/as a non-profit foundation. With Bonaire's police not doing their job for whatever reason for the last many years as Brigitte points out, and as has been repeatedly posted here on BT, Wowo di Bario is a great alternative to providing neighborhood security. At present it's costing us only about $60/month for piece of mind, and it's a small price to pay to support this non-profit organization.
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By Chris Gianos (BonaireTalker - Post #35) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 11:09 am: |
Looking and thinking about these responses. A lot of suggestions about bars/alarms/guards keep coming up. Just something to think about if these things all happen and it gets harder to break in won't the bad guys just change tactics? They seem to have shifted from cars to residences and why would they not just shift to directly targeting people?
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By Belinda Z (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #159) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 11:40 am: |
Neil,
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By Carl Pflanzer (BonaireTalker - Post #82) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 11:57 am: |
A couple of thoughts:
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By Very Sorry (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #1) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 1:30 pm: |
I am really sorrowed that it has come to this but I must say goodbye to Bonaire for now. I have visited this island on numerous occasions and many of you on this board know me so I have opted to use a new user ID as not to be recognized.
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By Bill and Donna Goodwin (BonaireTalker - Post #22) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 2:13 pm: |
Everyone has said it, but I too must get this off of my chest! There are already many "Dive Clubs" that are going elsewhere. We too are looking at buying rental property on Bonaire. Now we are certain we are going to go with a condo or apartment in a secured area. We are going to travel to Bonaire with the bare minimum...our dive gear and absolutely necessary stuff. We may sleep in our wet suits, BC's, regulator etc. and hope we will wake up if someone tries to rip us off! :-) We love the diving on Bonaire....MOST of the people on Bonaire seem to sincerely want us (and our $) there. I feel sad for those people that will not come to Bonaire for the WONDERFUL diving...but life goes on. The rental houses on Bonaire may become a thing of the past...but for the hotels, resorts, and all-inclusives...look out!!! Let's do our best to do what everyone has mentioned in this thread and then let's all move on to continue to keep Bonaire the BEST diving spot in the Caribbean!!!!!
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By Debbie Crosby (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #9) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 4:04 pm: |
We were strongly warned by our dive shop owner to choose another island for our dive trip this past spring - but chose to come to Bonaire for the first time and things did go well for us. However, this dive shop owner in Texas will no longer recommend or schedule group trips to Bonaire until the crime is under control. I feel if more dive travel specialists refused to book trips to Bonaire until this type of activity is diminished, it would make a huge difference in the attitude of the police department and department of tourism in solving these problems.
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By Carl Pflanzer (BonaireTalker - Post #83) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 4:42 pm: |
I don't see that there is an incentive for the police to find and prosecute these criminals, if they're not in on it. They would still have jobs, even if tourism dropped to zero. I think the government has to put pressure on the police to do something; they won't spring to action themselves.
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By Marcus L. Barnes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #158) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 6:57 pm: |
Bummer Otis. Glad you guys are okay. I can't really blame anyone who does not want to return to Bonaire due to the crime issue. I, however, will return for the shore diving. I believe there are effective ways to secure money and equipment while on Bonaire; I also believe you are relatively safe in your room as long as you stay away from stand alone rental houses that have not implemented security measures. I think criminals naturally take the path of least resistance and it is up to those of us that return to bonaire to make the path to us and/or our stuff sufficiently difficult. Jake says the locals are motivated to solve this issue; that hope and possibility is enough to motivate me to return to Bonaire. These losers may get to me and/or my stuff in the end but I can promise them it won't be easy. Have a great Dive!
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By lisa zacchio (BonaireTalker - Post #21) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 8:25 pm: |
My husband and I have been reading these posts, and are now in the midst of deciding on whether to cancel Bonaire for October, and find another place to dive. It's really a shame, as we have gone to Bonaire twice a year for the past few years. But I don't think it's worth having to worry constantly about your safety, or your belongings. Does anyone know the email addresses of the governor in Bonaire, or someone high up on the food chain that we can mass email? I'm not even sure if it would do any good. This is a very sad state of affairs for Bonaire. And for the divers who love it.
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By Bill and Donna Goodwin (BonaireTalker - Post #23) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 8:31 pm: |
What about a Private Security Force! I think this could be a very viable business enterprise and people will pay for it. The police are functionally out of the picture anyway...statement of fact.
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By Marcus L. Barnes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #159) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 8:59 pm: |
There's supposed to be a government plan for handling the crime issue. Check out the 5th post from the bottom under subtopic: assaulted and robbed at Logoen Hill under trip reports. You'll see one of the bullets talks about hiring an outside security agency.
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By Brigitte Kley (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #131) on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 10:57 pm: |
Lisa, the e-mail address of the governor I posted above - gezaghebber means governor...
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By Barton Brown (BonaireTalker - Post #21) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 12:07 am: |
Brigitte, for what it is worth, I have sent emails to the addresses you posted above. Thank you for making them available.
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By Joe Pacific (BonaireTalker - Post #68) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 1:16 am: |
People keep saying how it might take a death to make the government take notice. I talked to someone who went to Bonaire 5 years ago and a death DID happen DURING her visit and it was during a break-in. It happened to be a local victimizing a local, but there apparently HAVE been deaths involved in burglaries. Does anybody lurking out there have more information on this? Are there more violent incidents that we are not hearing about on this board?
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By Scott Phillips (BonaireTalker - Post #34) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 6:23 am: |
Time to add my two cents.
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By Ruth van Tilburg (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #247) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 6:49 am: |
I believe the incident you're referring to was in June 2000, when during an armed robbery of a snack-bar owning couple, (upon their return home & refusal to give up the money bag at gun point), were shot and killed. It was terrible, of course, moreso because this is a small town and most people knew (of) them. They owned what used to be Bon Awa, and had a 5 year old daughter at the time, whom I had taught to play 'Miss Mary Mack,' over my numerous visits for ice cream. To the best of my knowledge, and Bonaire is my home since 1990, (after growing up on the Jersey Shore, and living in Washington DC for 10 years), it is the last murder of any kind I can remember here, except for a domestic dispute a year or so before that. Those murders were four years ago. The mother of the attacker was suspicious of her son, and turned him in. He is still in prison. She keeps trying (unsuccessfully) to get him transferred to a prison in Holland, because if he's there, he'll be entitled to weekend passes, or is more likely to be released early, so I've been told.
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By Ruth van Tilburg (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #248) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 6:55 am: |
So Scott, was your sunrise in New Hampshire as beautiful as mine here on Kaya Grandi? We must've been writing at the same time. Thank you for so eloquently making the point I was attempting.
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By Scott Phillips (BonaireTalker - Post #35) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 7:03 am: |
Yeah, sunrise was indeed beautiful this morning on a nice crisp, clear New England morning the day after a meeting about 25 BT'ers at great BBQ in Bow NH (see the thread and pics under Everthing Else) where we all got to share our memories and thoughts of Bonaire. And only 23 days until our return to your little piece of paradise........
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By Meredith Lynch (BonaireTalker - Post #72) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 7:13 am: |
I think the problem in Bonaire is not the crime itself, but the lack of attention these crimes and criminals are getting. We have crime here in my little neck of the world, but at least when we do I know that I have the support of the law on my side.
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By Susanf (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #800) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 8:17 am: |
Ruth, you have a point... but. I WAS mugged in Italy - Rome, outside the St Pauls Cathedral out side the walls of Rome at noon - bright daylight. The police were useless as was the tour group leader whose job was to act as a liason.
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By andrew hamilton (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #8) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 8:33 am: |
Firstly may I add that I am also very sorry for what happened to the individuals who were burgled.
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By Susanf (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #801) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 8:48 am: |
Andrew:
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By Carl Pflanzer (BonaireTalker - Post #84) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 8:51 am: |
I agree, each incident must be put into perspective. But the bigger point, the point above the fact that crime does exist everywhere, is the point that the police and government are doing nothing to stop it and are showing complete apathy. This is the crux of the matter.
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By Geologydave (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #538) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 8:52 am: |
for christ sakes, just stop going to Bonaire, that was my advice in 1998, at which time we entraped and subsequently beat two thugs to a pulp at nucove. The island is not even a shadow of what it was on my first visit in 1986. The water quality has been affected by all the septic spoo and the crime is obviously supported by many of those nice folks you all talk so foundly of, probably all those fat assed "police" as well.
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By Susanf (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #802) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 9:15 am: |
Carl,
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By andrew hamilton (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #9) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 9:16 am: |
Susan - perhaps you would be so good as to direct me to the crime free spots in the caribbean, I'm all ears.
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By Geologydave (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #539) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 9:38 am: |
Safe Caribbean Islands:
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By Scott Phillips (BonaireTalker - Post #36) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 10:11 am: |
Let's see, anyone who chooses Bonaire as a vacation destination is an idiot, those who like to share their positive thoughts about it are dumb cheerleaders, beating thugs to a pulp, carrying pump shotguns on vacation, Bonaire is a third world nation, Bonaireans should dig trenches with a pick and shovel to solve their problems.........nah, it ain't even worth further comment.........
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By Denise Kacavas (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #773) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 10:44 am: |
Scott, well said :-)
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By Geologydave (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #540) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 10:45 am: |
yep, Scott I usually end the threads. as I suspect will happen here.
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By Kelly Jo Lott (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1475) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 11:03 am: |
Dave, your comments are always welcome with me !! Nice to see you popping in.
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By Scott Phillips (BonaireTalker - Post #37) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 11:07 am: |
Thanks Dave, I'm on my way right now to purchase several Uzi's and grenade launchers and sign up for the NRA Platinum Card. Thanks also for the heads up on feeling good about immobilizing scumbags; my testosterone levels have been a little low lately, and needed a boost.
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By Scott Phillips (BonaireTalker - Post #38) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 11:12 am: |
Oh Dave, by the way, if you think that there is only slightly more good than bad in the world based on your experiences, may I suggest that it is YOUR choice of experiences that requires some adjustment, not mine.
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By Barton Brown (BonaireTalker - Post #22) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 11:16 am: |
Carl P. - well said (above). Crime exists - apathy by those charged with mitigating the cause and the impact is the concern.
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By Denise Kacavas (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #774) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 11:35 am: |
Brigitte... thank you for the addresses of those to contact who may be at the heart of being able to address this
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By Geologydave (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #541) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 11:48 am: |
Thanks Kelly, and knock on heads, not wood.
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By Glen Reem (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1805) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 12:19 pm: |
Ah, aren't flamethrowers wonderful???!!!
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By Scott Phillips (BonaireTalker - Post #39) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 12:37 pm: |
Right back at ya Dave from one rabble rouser to another. It's been a fun filled morning of creative provocation. Hope to meet you on Bonaire one day.......
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By Geologydave (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #542) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 1:23 pm: |
nah, I got this thing about Bonaire...how bout Cay Sal Banks, I really want to see your new grenade launcher.
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By Scott Phillips (BonaireTalker - Post #40) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 1:44 pm: |
Nah, I only hang out with in places frequented by ill-advised, untravelled tourists. But I'll meet ya on this board tomorrow and we'll solve the world hunger problem as well as more important topics like Janet Jackson's wardrobe difficulties......
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By jason thomas (BonaireTalker - Post #69) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 3:52 pm: |
Bonaire officially sucks. What a shame for the people of bonaire. I blame rap music.
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By Vince DePietro (BonaireTalker - Post #42) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 3:58 pm: |
Well it appears that this thread may be going downhill from here..
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By jason thomas (BonaireTalker - Post #70) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 4:06 pm: |
__________________________________________________
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By Kay Powers (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #832) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 4:21 pm: |
Well said Vince.
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By Carl Pflanzer (BonaireTalker - Post #85) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 4:58 pm: |
Vince - you were lucky in several respects, not the least of which was to find local authorities who cared about your safety.
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By jason thomas (BonaireTalker - Post #71) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 5:39 pm: |
To sin by silence make cowards of men
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By Marcus L. Barnes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #161) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 5:45 pm: |
Quoting from the Bonaire Reporter dated June 18 -25 2004: "The condition of Bonaire's coral reefs is equivalent to typical Caribbean coral in the 1970s. Thats about seven times better than Belize and three times better than that of other Caribbean locations." Unquote.
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By Linnea Wijkhof-Wimberly (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #733) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 6:04 pm: |
Gee, its nice to know that I am an untraveled and ill-advised know nothing. I have only been to Baja California, Cozumel, the 3 Caymans, Grand Turk, Belize, Puerto Rico, Honduras, Fiji, Australia, Egypt, Kenya, Tanzania, Yap, and that most dangerous of places, Bonaire, for diving.
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By Tom Brossard (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #5) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 6:15 pm: |
"Well said"...hahahaha.
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By Marcus L. Barnes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #162) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 6:39 pm: |
Scuba Diving Magazine's most recent Top 100 Survey: "Readers say Bonaire offers the best diving in the Caribbean/Atlantic region." Unquote.
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By Bill and Donna Goodwin (BonaireTalker - Post #24) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 6:44 pm: |
It's amazing how much negativity there is now on this thread - name calling, gun-grabbing, macho posturing, bragging and accusing. Well, I'm not "inexperienced or old" - I've dove the Red Sea (two trips, including virgin Saudi Arabian sites), Fernando de Noronha on the equator 250 miles off Brasil (shark central, no Stuart Cove-type feeding there either), eastern Mediterranean (Turkey), Persian Gulf (off Oman), Cayman, Florida Keys, Roatan, Bahamas, Gulf Coast, St Lucia, St Vincent, Baja Cal, various Costa Rican sites (from my own cruising sailboat that I built), most of the Channel Islands off California, Galapagos, Maui and Oahu, and more... I've been burgled in Lebanon, California, and Brasil - and I'm making my 4th trip to Bonaire in October. Petty thieves and the more dangerous "live" burglars are a fact of life everywhere and to blow up the truly unfortunate, vacation-wrecking incidents that have occurred on Bonaire until you're making statements like "Bonaire sucks" and "I'm never going back" and Bonaire is only good for "inexperienced and old" divers is pretty darn silly and indicative of some rather small minds. Here are the facts: Bonaire is great diving; a majority of the people on Bonaire are good honest folks; the Bonairean police need a major overhaul; and all people (travelers and locals alike) must be vigilant and smart whether at home or not.; this is a board that is meant to be helpful. Therefore it is probably time to end this discussion instead of continuing down the lowest-common-denominator path.
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By Scott Phillips (BonaireTalker - Post #41) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 7:20 pm: |
I believe that the character known as Geology Dave has a bit of a reputation on this board as being a rabble rouser. In light of the continued comments from folks on this topic, I think it would be interesting for Dave to perhaps add one more post indicating with perhaps some level of seriousness just how much of his comments were meant merely to provoke/have a little fun stirring up the pot and how much they are meant in earnest. Are you up to that, Dave?
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By Tom Cousino (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #704) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 7:31 pm: |
No more sinning by silence.
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By Israel A. Sanchez (BonaireTalker - Post #48) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 8:20 pm: |
Ooff! Enough of this non-sense! This is far worse than the Taiwanese parliament! I thought people were more open minded to other's opinions! Why insisting in bringing-up those non-sense "Bonaire has low crime" bogus statistics? ALL members of this board know very well and are aware of the crime situation in Bonaire and bringing up those over-used, worn-out statements,and saying "There's crime everywhere" is stating the obvious and the equivalent of calling somebody stupid (Yeah, that's water, careful it is wet!). As it was pointed before, the crime issue is not what is discussed, but rather the apathy and complete lack of interest from those who are supposed to help. Those who choose to return to Bonaire, well, good for you! I wish you happy and safe diving and a trouble-free trip. However, some of you do need to read more thoroughly before deriving flawed conclusions. That is how the flamethrowers got lit! As I said before, returning to Bonaire is now a personal matter. Those who choose to return, please respect those who chose not to and quit throwing those over-used stats. They're no longer relevant. I for one vote to end this thread and move on to a new one. It is sad to see how the sharing of someone's experience has deteriorated into a battleground of irrelevant personal attacks and me-too's. Please let's refocus on the original point of this post and give Neil Godbee the sympathy and support that he and his loved ones could not find in the Island. Enough said, time to move on. Coach Izzy
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By Carole Baker (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #3841) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 9:10 pm: |
Amen. cb
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By Richard Burdette (BonaireTalker - Post #32) on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 9:29 pm: |
Say goodnight, Dick.
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By David Johnson (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #6) on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - 1:41 am: |
I want to first express my sorrow and outrage at what happened to Cptn. Godbee, his family, and his friends. No one should ever have to experience such a thing -- in Bonaire or anywhere else.
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By Glen Reem (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1807) on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - 2:13 am: |
For heavens sake, moderators, please put this thread to rest!!! Even the gravediggers seem to be asleep.
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By Martin de Weger (Moderator - Post #18) on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - 6:32 am: |
To stop the name-calling and mud-trowing, we will close this tread. If some one has questions about this action, feel free to contact the moderators
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