(Identical message posted in the Kitesurfing board)

They say you have to learn to play together in the sandbox as kids, or in the ocean as adults in Bonaire.

Three days ago at 5 pm my husband and I went in to dive at Atlantis - read SDME and understood the warnings - and observed only one kiter and he was getting out, so we felt like the exit would be safe.

Still when returning from our dive at 6:15 in 5 feet of water, hugging the bottom, ie still not having surfaced, we observed a 'contrail' that of the board of a kiter. We waited a bit, saw nothing, took off a fin, and surfaced it and then the other fin and again waved it and then stood slowly and cautionously.

I know there have been lots of discussions and solutions offereed. Mine is for both sides to contribute to the solution. Create a 'channel' with bouy markers for the kiters to go out, and then they need to stay over the reef, in say 30 or more feet, in the blue. Divers surface shallow and wave dive flags, fins etc.

I have concerns on both sides: After watching the kiters I wonder of their ability to get out of the way quickly for a diver and for inexperienced divers of their ability to surface with safety - both a very shallow location - and with a safety device.

Something needs to be done, before someone is hurt or killed. Lydia

Lydia,
Did the kiter see you and acknowledge your presence? Did he/she notice?

I should think they could stay out of the shallows where divers surface, it's true... divers shouldn't NEED to fear for their lives when surfacing in shallow water in whatever dive site - even one where kiting is allowed.

If I ever get killed by a kite surfer I am going to be soo mad.

Hey guys, I was snorkeling alone at Margate Bay a few weeks ago and looked up and saw one coming towards me. I was very close to shore. As my dad would say, "I didn't know whether to sh** or go blind." lol. I kicked like no tomorrow to get back to shore, it was a sight! ha ha!

Don't know that he saw me; didn't acknowledge me that I know of... how do they do that? Wave at you?

Speaking of learning to play together in the sandbox..... This isn't likely to be Bonaire but I posted it just for all of you who ocean kayak around Bonaire....

'You Know When Your Boat Is Too Small When...'

Lydia, I'm going to delete your duplicate post in the Kiteboarding topic area.

I urge you to write the Marine Park with your story. You can find the address further down in this thread:

Kiters and Divers

Good idea surfacing the fin, then waving the other...

Kelly,

The only good acknowledgement would be to steer away from you!!!

Close to shore at Margate is 'out of bounds' isn't it? Sounds reportable. The more reports the better so the Marine Park has the best picture of the dangers to divers by kiting from Atlantis.

Love the visual Glen!

Moderators,

I would prefer that you leave the post on the kitsurfing discussion page, as that is likely to be the place there more dialogue for a compromise solution is to take place. Please reconsider..Lydia

Hi Lydia, I can move this whole thread over to the Kiteboarding section for you..I believe it is better placed in this section for more conversation..... thanks for the great tip with the fins!!

There was an article in Bonaire Reporter a while ago that stated that Atlantis had been renamed "Kite Beach" by the kiting community. Went back to a message I previously posted on the Diving thread about this to confirm that the sites in this thread and the Bonaire Reporter were the same (they are!) so nothing really new here, although I fully agree everyone needs to be careful and learn to share the ocean. Stating the obvious, as we all need to enter and exit the water in the shallows, this is the place where all parties should use common sense and be careful. Sure don't want to have to give up diving Atlantis; it has been one of our favorite Southern shore sites.

The kiters have one beach to kite. How many dive sites are there? Can we all get along and work this out? Roan and his crew have created a wonderful and safe kite spot for kiters. Best of luck to all...

Peace

Annie

Annie,

Although the kiters may have been given one site, I have repoeatedly seen them as far south as Fisherman's hut south and as far north as Red Beryl/Margate.

But what really gets to me, is seeing them practicing and playing in the green water - the shallows . It is the traversing back and forth in the shallows that is likely to cause an accident. As I am not a kiter, I am not clear why they can not do the same in deeper blue water.

Again, there needs be a way for everyone to play in the ocean safely. Lydia

I am with Lydia here.

Look back among the posts here about diver's experiences with kiters and they are mostly, if not entirely, in shallow water. Many are away from the 'kiter's beach'.

Divers are rarely encroaching on the kiter's beach but kiters frequently are endangering divers in the divers' space. Living together takes two, both working at the partnership.

Glen,

Thanks for the comments, now who does one contact that has some power to enforce safety in the water?

Lydia

maybe you have to read your open water course book again. we divers have two different flags to show others that there are divers under water. Maybe an idea to take one when you go into a divespot where you can expect boats, kites, surfers or whatever. please don't ask Stinapa now to hang up flags everywhere. only when you are down you are suppost to show that flag :-) have fun and safety and lets no make more rules then there are already

Rob, the topic of a dive float, dive flag, safety sausage has been discussed at length. Please go back up to the link I posted in my first post on this thread and you will read a healthy discussion on the topic.

Lydia, I again suggest you click on the link and scroll down. The contact info for the Marine Park is there. Let them know what happened. Reporting close calls is the only thing currently that can be done.

I think that we can all play in the Bonairian waters, however, it is the safety of both surfers and divers that is at hand. There have been numerous close calls at various sites other than Atlantis.

For someone totally uninformed about Kite Surfing on Bonaire, is there some restriction on where you can and can't KS, I know about Lac Bay. The reason I ask is it appears from some of the comments above there is. It's been a while ago but one afternoon I watched a kite surfer hauling *** between Pink Beach and the Salt Pier. Most of the time he/she was only a short distance so off shore doing all sorts of jumps and spins. We decided not the dive in the area. There was no way he was paying any attention to where he was going or what was in the water other than not hitting shore. In the end, the only way to keep it safe for us all is to keep diving and kite surfing in separate locations.

Herman, the only restriction is Lac Bay (inside the reef)....that is the main issue/problem on the West side. I would encourage you to email Ramon at the Marine Park and let him know about your aborted dives, and the reason.

For everyone's information: Here is the response I received from Ramon, manager of STINAPA, to the email I sent him (which follows):

Dear Mr. Goodwin:

Thank you very much for your support and input. We at the Bonaire National Marine Park highly appreciate you take the time to give us your opinion.

I totally agree with your comments and I want to let you know that we are doing our best in order to give both sports, kiting and diving, the best possible chance.

We have set a few possible solutions and at this very moment we are under negotiations with Cargill Salt (owner of the land at Atlantis) to implement a zonation plan that allow kiters to entry and exit the water in a established corridor in front of Atlantis. After the agreement is signed and a good informative campaign implemented, we will apply for kiters the same navigation rules that applies to any other vessel crossing in the BNMP. That mean that they can only speed up in blue waters. Further more, we are working in a new environment ordinance and we propose to include our zonation plan in it in order to rise the proposal to law status. In this way we can enforce it. At this moment when a kite speed up in shallow water, they are breaking navigations rules that the BNMP can not enforce it since is harbour master jurisdiction. Part of our environment ordinance proposal is to give the BNMP more jurisdiction to enforce laws that nobody else is enforcing.

I expect to have this zonation plan working before the end of the year. I hope I can meet this dead line. Thank you again for your concerns and I hope you keep coming to Bonaire.

Best regards and do not hesitate in contact me if you have some further questions or suggestions.
*****************************
Ramon de Leon.
Manager - Bonaire National Marine Park.

P.O. Box 368
Bonaire - Netherlands Antilles.
Phone: (599) 717 8444.
Fax: (599) 717 7318.

E-mail: marinepark@stinapa.org
Homepage: www.bmp.org
*****************************






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bill Goodwin [mailto:ptsllc@bellsouth.net]
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 12:54 PM
To: marinepark@stinapa.org
Subject: kite surfing meets divers
Importance: High


Hello Ramon and staff:

As frequent visitors to Bonaire (our 9th trip in 3.5 years in October), we need to alert you to a situation that is becoming increasingly dangerous, the kite surfers at Atlantis and their disregard for divers from Fish Hut north to Margate and sometimes up by the Salt Pier and Pink Beach too.

We dive Margate and Fish Hut almost every day we're on island (that means at least 4 weeks a year) - we used to dive Atlantis but that's become too dangerous for divers due to the kiters. When we first began coming to Bonaire in 2003, we might see three kiters in the water and they stayed mostly at Atlantis. Now it is common to see 10 -12 kites in the water, people wondering all over the dune area (what happened to the turtle nesting sites there?), and kites and the chase boat in very shallow water at Margate all the time - DAILY. It is only a matter of time before a kite board collides with a diver's skull - and a power boat in three feet of water with the operator's eyes on an errant kiter instead of watching for divers! We have had more close calls than I can count - and we surface careful and have sometimes used a "sausage" but still they go right over us.

Hopefully you can do something to keep the kiters away from Margate and Fish Hut - they have a right to their exciting sport but no right to endanger my family, friends and myself. Also they only pay $10 park fee while divers pay $25 - is that equitable?

Finally, consider the financial impact for Bonaire of kiters versus the value of divers to the island's economy.

Great letter Bill & I certainly applaud your efforts!

Bill, Thanks for writing BNMP and for posting your email and Ramon's response. I really hope he can accomplish all that he sets out in his letter!

While this issue is sorted out, might it be wise to use a dive float/flag in these areas, as is de riguer in any other area with divers and boat traffic? This would definitely detract from the dive but beats a fractured skull, or worse.

David, the float flag thing has been discussed at great length on a couple of other threads...problem is, no one but divers know what it is...one dinghy actually came by and tried to pick it up thinking it was, who knows what...and a couple of other reports of surfers (aka kiters) heading for it rather than steering away from it...education is going to be key

I didn't think there was anyone, let alone anyone on Bonaire, who didn't know what a red flag with a white diagonal meant!

My wife nearly got clobbered by a kitesurfer this December.

Divers have to do an orientation to the marine park before diving. Why not kitesurfers?

David,

I would agree. I am the person that started this post.
I am concerned that even with dive flags/floats the kiters would not pay mind to them or have the ability to avoid divers surfacing. An orientation is a GREAt idea.

I agree with Lydia and with so many others who have pointed out that kiters, especially when speeding along or getting air, may not have the ability to avoid a diver even if said diver is displaying a flag or float. Bear in mind that kiters who are going fast in shallow water are in violation of laws governing navigation that are at present under the enforcement jurisdiction of the Harbormaster. The suggestion that divers display flags/floats and comparing this situation with other areas of typical "boat traffic" is not appropriate, as these "boats" are not themselves obeying existing navigation laws and thus it is not a typical "boat traffic" area. Flags and floats are not the complete answer to this problem.

Sorry all, but some of you make it sound if the kiteboarders don't pay attention to divers.
I totally disagree on this one. Most kiters are divers too. It seems you don't have enough knowledge of kiteboarding to have a objective opinion. So please stop these messages and drop by to take a better look or have a nice chat! I'm sure after the chat your opinion will be different than what it is now. It's weird how kiteboarding is being looked at on this beautiful dive-/kite-island!

Jeroen, without trying to offend anyone, but imho kiters are NOT paying attention to divers. When going fast (and jumping) in the shallows on an island (also) known for its divers, they do take the risk of hitting someone. I've been there, admired the kiters, moved back one or 2 sites and still got a near miss in about 2 feet of water. I really don't know in what way kiters are paying attention to the divers. I've been driving a powerboat for about 9 years, and I would not think about opening the throttle in an area where there are people in the water. The risk of overlooking some one is way too big. The same goes for an area where there are divers in the water, it's even harder to see bubbles from a fast moving object then a head above the surface.

I'm not saying kiting should be banned, I only say kiters should use one place to enter and exit the water and then go out in the blue, as an area where divers are not likely to surface.

Just my 2 cents.
Martin

Thanks Martin! I happen to agree with you. However, if Jeroen is correct and they are watching out for divers, then we have an even bigger problem. There have been way too many near misses. If these are being caused by kiters who are watching out for divers, then the two sports are incompatible. Jeroen may have just confirmed the suggestion that we need to have kiting in one specified area and to restrict them to that area. If conscientious and aware kiters are almost hitting divers, then what happens when the inexperienced kiters are in training? What happens when the experienced kiter makes a mistake? Way too dangerous to allow this to play out.

I think this perspective should be taken seriously and mentioned to Stinapa. If Jeroen is correct, then the only safe solution for all concerned is to separate the two sports.

What I am wondering about is if this discussion is going on by residents of Bonaire or people who just visit us ones in a while.
I know Jeroen is residing here and think this matter should be solved locally.
Stinapa has made over a 50 dive spots reachable by car and a big number by boat. Kiters have only one spot to go to. think I have said enough.

Well put Rob...

A windsurfer who totally supports kiters and divers...

Rob, the discussion is being taken on by residents, frequent visitors, and occasional visitors. All of these people have a stake in how safe their sport is, be they on vacation or living in an area. To exclude people based upon not living on the island in this discussion is a bit elitest given that "visitors" have almost had their heads taken off by kiters. If you tell visitors that they will not be safe and they should just accept that concept because they are not "Local", that will harm tourism and no one wants that.

And Rob, please read all of the posts regarding this topic, not just one thread. The kiters do not only use one spot. Several divers have almost been hit in areas where the kiters should not have been kiting (Pink Beach, Tori's, to name a few). If the kiters did stay in the area designated to them, there would be no discussion.

I agree with Rob's post that the island has over 50 dive sites. The kiters have already been banned from Lac Bay. Those in charge, Stinapa have made Atlantis available. I know Roan and Jeroen and all the local kiters. They are a safety and environmentally concerned bunch. It's about finding a balance. Would I dive near Atlantis? Probably not...but thankfully if I did dive there are a plethora of other spots to enjoy.

Lydia,

Some kiters go off on their own to kite at Pink Beach and other areas. This I know...Atlantis is the only sanctioned area to kite as I understand it...no one can kite near the airport for obvious reasons..and Lac Bay is also banned.

Jeroen and Rob, I am all for kiters, and them having their own spot, and everyone getting along SAFELY. I know 3 divers personally that have had very near misses (had to quickly duck back underwater in 3 feet of water to avoid being struck at the end of a dive) and this was not at Atlantis. If the Kiters are safety minded of divers, how does this happen. There have been reports on this board of over 30 near misses, and these are the one's who have reported it here. How is this happening?

Jeroen, I thank you for the invitation to stop by and chat. We have kiters here in California, but they have to do it out in the deep blue, we have heavy surf and there are no shallows to hang out in. It is a beatiuful sport. Next time on island, when I'm driving South and coming back from a dive, if there is a group by Fish Hut or Atlantis, I'll stop and say hi, and chat a while. I would encourage anyone else to do so, maybe bridge the gap a little and begin conversations about both our concerns. Sometimes lack of communication is the biggest problem and it creates the biggest crevice toward a solution. Just my thoughts on a beautiful Sunday morning in Southern California

As most of you know, I rarely speak up unless it has to do with correcting some facts. I too support the kiters and their right to enjoy their sport and also love to watch them. When I ride my Harley on Saturdays I usually go down south and usually stop to watch them for awhile.

Just to clear up one point...it was NOT STINAPA that banned the kiters from Lac...it was the government based on input by some people on the island. STINAPA was only charged with enforcing the ban. STINAPA actually tried to work out a compromise to enable the kiters to stay in Lac and utilize it at specific times recommended by the kiters themselves, but to no avail.

I see STINAPA being made the bad guy for many rules and regulations in regards to the environment and the marine park on the island. While many of the rules and regulations STINAPA does RECOMMEND, there are also many that STINAPA does NOT RECOMMEND and actually advise against...however they are passed none the less...it is the government and only the government that may put the rules and regulations into place and/or remove or change them...all STINAPA can do is try to enforce them equally for all.

Hey, I don't wanna pass the point that people got almost hit or something. Or that Stinapa get's the blame for saving our beautiful nature on Bonaire. Maybe it's an idea that with the plans Stinapa makes with the local fisherman for fishponds, where divers are not allowed to let the fish grow back, kiters get their own area where diving is regulated or forbidden. Like it is with the townpier and Saltpier. The island is big enough for us all, and offcourse in everything there are people who break those rules, but let's not the few screw up for the majority.

Let me make one point straight: Stinapa has all my support and they do a great job.

As far as I have heard (from somebody at the salt company), the discussion about the kiters using Atlantis as entry are going on for quite some time, but the kiters have not signed the agreement (refusing to sign as the grape vine calls it....) ... and as long as they don't understand that they are not alone out there and on Bonaire in general .... perhaps everybody (the kiters as well as the authorities) is waiting for the big accident ????
Perhaps only a few of them are the bad guys, but than the good guys (and the operator of the bus) should take their responsability and educate those rude ones.

Other Tourist spots seems to have been able to figure it out. I don't know what's wrong with Bonaire, but all this has definitely left a bad taste in my mouth. I'm a sports enthusiast (all sports) and I wish you luck. I'm off this website for good.

I think the big difference is that Bonaire is famous for its shore diving whereas a lot of tropical destinations are not.

KITER vs DIVER SOLUTION

Dear Friends,

The Bonaire natural environment is a great dive destination and not a very good kiter venue. The people of Bonaire should protect the sport that supports their economy.

The Solution for the kiter - diver conflict:

Get the kite community to identify their favorite kiting spots.
Close these areas to diving.
Close all remaining areas to kiting.
On our beaches, we have been successful keeping the windsurfers and kiters and surfers separated in this manner.

I am a kiter first and a diver second and the solution works for me.
The two sports can NOT co-exist in one location.

"Get the kite community to identify their favorite kiting spots.
Close these areas to diving. "

Close these areas to diving???? That aint gonna happen.

I am in favor for such a solution. WHY NOT ??? In fact, if you close down let's say 4 dive-sites and "give" them to the kiters and move them to the next 4 dive-site after a couple of years. Next to that, these dive-sites can stay open for divers for night-dives (??), since I doubt (not know) seriously that anybody will be kiting at night. What is so bad with loosing 4 or 5 divesites. There are plenty!!!

In my opinion "the dive-industry" is digging their own grave in the long run with the attitude they have. Where does it come from that the dive-industry thinks they have the right to "claim" the complete west-coast of the main island and the whole of Klein Bonaire ???.
Accidents will happen in the (near) future (hopefully NOT!!) and if they happen that will result in governmental solutions..... Right, that's what we need -- a bunch of desk-clercks regulating things they might have never seen or experienced themselves before!!!

The island has opened up for different activities then diving only, which is (in my eye's) a very, very good thing. To make it fair to everybody you do have to give these new activities a fair chance and some room to play in !!!!

What do you all think when some waves like Lenny has brought in 99 come and pass by again one of these days. What will happen if they are a little bigger ???
The tourism on island might be saved then because there are other activities then diving only!!!

Just my 2 cents ....

Aaargh. I thought this thread died almost a year ago... And it is restarted by a first time poster. There was another thread last year that beat the topic to death.

Haha, you are o oh so right David.
But, let's face it; All threats are basically about the same.
"Newbies" ask the same questions over and over again and the BT "diehards" give them the same answers over and over again. Isn't it great!! Nobody has to think or do anything, just copy and paste will do fine !!!