Hello all! I'm here on Bonaire and have had to abort 5 dives now because of kite surfers. Four times I found them at Pink Beach and the fifth time was at Tori's Reef. Can any one explain why they are coming so far north from their normal areas? Is this going to be a permanent thing? Just curious because I was getting a little frustrated.

I have previously suggested establishing new sites for kite-surfers on the West side of the island, perhaps interspersed with the existing dive sites identified by sky-blue stones and named by the kite-surfers. Primarily made the suggestion for the safety of both divers and kiters, and not trying to create a division between two important groups. Had less than an enthusiastic response. Perhaps the Marine Park officials may want to state their position.

hey jeanine,

sounds like you have been having a good time for the most part;)

if the kite surfers are migrating a bit north - that could be a good thing - the reef (in my opinion) is much better down by atlantis...

did you do the la dania's drift?

later,

So why would one need to abort a planned dive due to kite surfers? Don't they usually stay on TOP of the water?

I suppose there's a minimal chance of a collision when surfacing at the end of a dive, but if you do the usual Bonaire end-profile into shallow water you should be OK, no?

Tom, they enter/exit/play in the shallow water. There have been a few BTers who have surfaced in 5 feet of water and had one heading right for them, had to quickly drop back down as the kiter whizzed overhead. That's the problem.

I don't see why we can't just split the island in half. Divers get the west side and Klein, kiters get the whole east side.

Ooohhh not trying to start a bashing session. I love watching the kite surfers, just concerned about diver safety. I forgot to mention they were in the shallows and not in the deep blue. I for one cannot submerge fast enough to miss a surfer coming straight at me. I would rather go to another site than to try and risk a collision. I like it down by Atlantis as well, but only go that way for the early morning dives out of respect for the surfers who need play space as well. It would just be nice to know where they would be and then if one wanted to plan a dive in their area they would do so with full knowledge that they could run into a kiter (literally!). We can play nicely together if we just know the rules.

Ooops Bob...did not do La Dania's but have spent several dives at Karpata. Can't seem to get enough of that site.

Jeanine, I don't think this is a bashing session at all. It is too bad that they can't have dedicated sites to kiteboard at, that way divers would know where the kiters would be and could simply plan dives in other areas. Also, just to be clear, you said "surfers" but the windsurfers are over at Lac Bay, it's the kiters that are on the southern sites.

Tom and Martin both almost got it by kiters last October when they were surfacing and getting ready to exit. That IS a concern, and folks that may be going to Bonaire for the first time need to know that if they dive a site where kiters are nearby, if they choose to dive there, put up a safety sausage or flag so the kiters know there are divers in the water.

Jeanine,

Have you asked about/reported this at your dive op and/or the Marine Park office?

As I understand it kiters have a limited area for kiting and the rules are enforced by the island. Like all of us, they will expand their ops outside the rules if allowed.

Little enforcement can be done without infractions being reported.

Actually I wrote kite surfers, which I have been told is the proper term. The kite surfers are the ones I saw at Pink Beach and Tori's Reef, not wind surfers.

Yes I told the dive shop who agreed they should not be there and I will be reporting it to Stinapa.

Hey GH - I was speaking with Bas about the kite surfers and he had a pretty good suggestion. If you are in an area where they might be when you emerge, swim in to shore under the water until you are in about 6 feet of water and then turn your reg up to the surface and start it free flowing. It makes a huge fountain of water, which is supposed to be very obvious. Not a perfect solution, but it might help.

Great Idea there, Jeanine! Tell Bas thank you for the suggestion.

I think Grasshopper is right on the money. Shoot a surface marker buoy when you reach 15' on your way back in so the kiters know where you are before you actually surface.

Unless the kites come over to see what the water fountain or buoy is, like motor boaters around a dive flag!!! :–)

Best to limit where they kite, as in an in-and-out lane to deep water and general kiting beyond the drop off. Then divers and kiters will each have their own safe space.

Glen,
I agree and thank you.

I think it would be quite difficult to see very much when you are moving at speeds up to 15-25 mph. Not much time to react if a fin, head, dive marker, or tank presents itself right in front of you.

Thanks Sus and Glen, didn't think about that, good point! Guess I better look into buying some of those sausages to shoot up there as I just love diving on the south side to be safe.

Hi
Considering the speed that kiters can travel at,(my uneducated guess would be easily 30 miles per hour) they close on you awfully fast. In choppy water they probably woundn't see bubbles.
I feel they should required to stay out in the blue except in designated landing areas, marked by flags or whatever. . My 2 cents.
Mick

I think Glen's ideas present less danger than deploying a sausage. You are more likely to become buoyant and on the surface in harms way while doing so. My sausage is a part of my BCD so in order to inflate it I have to inflate my BCD first. With air in my BCD I can not move as quickly as if I was still on the bottom.

Well, learn something new everyday! I actually never used a sausage, thought about it, but never utilized one. Have to keep thinking on this one.
I have never seen kiters as far north as Tori's reef! Sorry to hear this news. Hubby and I almost got binged by a kiter once and we always make a point to wave at them before going in and all, but sometimes the wind just carries them away and one got pretty darn close and we dove under real quick! Been o.k. since then, though. I wonder who is in charge of monitoring kiter and diver safety margins? Got to be a way that we can all do our thing safely and not infringe on the other's freedom to do so either. Hope Bonaire finds a solution before someone gets hurt. I know lots of folks enjoy snorkeling Tori's reef and don't see how they could do that if Kiters are there now. Shame. It effects not just divers, but snorkels too.

Any kiter who 'just gets carried away by the wind' into waters where they are dangerous to others shouldn't be out there at all.

Jeannine, thanks for the correction. I guess in my mind, when I hear surfers, I think California surfers or windsurfers. On the board they've always been referred to as kiters, so maybe we need a "definitions page...lol

So, we have Tom, Martin, Debbie, Gregg, and 1 person who lives on Bonaire that have almost gotten hit by a kiter/surfer...and Jeanine who had to abort 5 dives. I wonder how many other "close calls" there have been by folks who haven't mentioned it in their trip report, or who don't post on BT, considering how many divers visit the island....

If you are at an area and have to abort a dive, or almost get hit, by all means call the Marine Park Office and report the incident. They need details in regard to what took place (not just "I saw 2 kiters at Pink Beach).

I was thinking about this, and if you entered the water and there were no kiters in the area, but within the 60 plus minutes you were in the water they got in the water, you would have no warning that they were there. This is a serious problem and someone is going to get seriously injured. I hope that isn't what needs to happen before there are some guidelines put in place.

I do think Glen has a good idea. Designated lanes for getting in and out, and marked spots for kiters/surfers. This is a disaster waiting to happen and frankly, it has me very worried as I certainly don't want to be the one to get hit.

I thought that such lanes/areas already had been designated near Atlantis. Certainly this was discussed before.

Maybe someone 'on the board' here from CURO or STINAPA will update us.

(Message edited by glenr on June 12, 2006)

Glen, by what I understand (from a source on Bonaire) is that there are no rules, regulations or guidelines concerning the kiters.

The phone number for the BNMP is (717-8444).

This past trip in March/April I snorkeled all along the coast between Red Beryl and Tori's reef (and of course, beyond) while my husband was diving. I usually snorkel alone but had my brain injured 37 yr. old son with me during some VERY close calls with kite surfers (within 15-20 feet). Although we avoided Atlantis, the kite surfers can travel quite a distance.

We observed some beginners being accompanied by a small boat that traveled way out into the dark blue and/or way north to Tori's Reef. As can be expected, the beginners cannot control their direction precisely nor can they avoid a snorkeler or a surfacing diver. It's sad to have to keep watch for the kite boards while enjoying the fish below. No one sport owns the water but safety is an issue.

This is definitely a disaster waiting to happen !!!

Hi Linda, I witnessed the boat going after the kiters this past February and was wondering why they had to keep going out to rescue them all. Now, that explains it! I agree that beginners cannot control their direction as I saw that first hand myself and is indeed something to be aware of for sure!

The major concern is safety here, for divers, snorkelers and the kiters themselves. I am somewhat bothered that the kiters are now reaching out at other sites on the south side. This is not fair to those who may want to snorkel or dive with peace of mind not to get hurt doing so.

Grasshopper, thanks for the number, but how about an email for folks who may not want to spend money on the call? Maybe if all folks concerned about the kiters and diver/snorkler safety could email someone in charge, they may time to drive over and access the saftey issue and maybe enforce some guidelines for kiters that would ensure the safety of all who enjoy mother ocean.
I would think that just going for a quick drive by the south side and seeing exactly where the kiters are would be enough to do so as I am sure that they will see by how the kiters are operating at present is certainly not safe to all concerned? Just a thought.

Glen,

Sorry to disagree but the point of shooting an SMB is to let the kiters know that you're there long before you get near the surface and become at risk. If they run over the SMB then it sure beats them running over me. Plus it makes it pretty easy to figure out where the diver is going to come ashore if they see it heading for the shallows.

I think one of the biggest problems that will be run into is that a lot of these kiters are of a younger crowd and may not take the time to educate themselves about the need to avoid divers that are in the water around them. I'd like to think however that the locals won't be that, but we'll just have to wait and see.



Susan,

You are correct. The safety sausage you have is not meant to be deployed while still submerged. The result would be as you suggested, an uncontrolled ascent. I suggest getting a true surface marker buoy with a finger spool and have someone teach you how to deploy it at depth safely. Besides letting people on the surface know where you're about to surface they're useful in letting the boat know where you are during a drifting safety stop so they can follow you, and they can be used as a traditional safety sausage if necessary. DAN has a very nice one that's 6' tall, bright orange, and has a reflective strip on it. It also includes a signaling mirror, a whistle, and a 6" glow stick. I've seen them around for just over $50 which is a good price for one of this quality. A finger spool with 100' of #24 line and a SS double snap should only cost about $20 and also has other uses if needed.

Again, for anyone that is thinking about getting one of these SMB's, please, have an experienced diver teach you how to deploy it at depth safely. You should always have your buddy standing by with their knife already drawn, ready to immediately cut the line if the diver deploying the SMB should get entangled.

(Message edited by jim_peters on June 12, 2006)

Linda, I agree about some kitters having absolutely no control over direction. We have seen them crash into the shore many times, now I don't think that was the plan. My wife and I took an inexperienced couple diving at Red Beryl in March 2005 and we were all in less than 8' of water near the shore when a kitter came right overhead as the lady of the couple was attempting to standup, a very close call with bubbles from four divers close to the surface. I am for getting them back to Lac Bay or get rid of em all together before someone really gets hurt.

(Message edited by jthomas on June 12, 2006)

Jim,

I understand the SMB is designed to proceed the diver to the surface. Which brings me back to the curiosity factor. I have seen boats in MA using a towed dive flag as a turning pylon. Sometimes the boaters actually have pulled the flag line (with diver attached) to the surface. Even with separation there is no complete way around unknowing kiters (or divers), or the dumb and/or inexperienced ones (of both disciplines).

I will continue to believe that physical separation of water space is the best answer. If kiters cannot operate safely without endangering divers, then the kiters must go, as in any other similar situation. As in 'Lac Bay'. (Don't flame me, ardent kiters-- we have been through all of that before.)

Hi Glen,

I live and dive in MA and I've heard the horror stories about boats and divers. Just remember this, the human race is the only species on the entire planet in which the stupid not only survive, but thrive and multiply in ever increasing numbers. And many of them own boats!!! Heck, you want some free entertainment? Just grab a lawn chair and the sunday paper and head out to any public boat launching ramp, especially if it's on a river. I saw one idiot flip the entire boat and trailer over on the ramp at the Charles River because it had moved sideways in the current while he was jumping in the cab of the truck and was no longer aligned with the trailer. The majority are pretty good but you always get a handful of real winners each day.

Luckily boats aren't a problem on Bonaire. As for the curiosity factor with the kiters. Has anybody tried going over before the dive and talking to them and explaining where you'll be and what the SMB means so they'll avoid it when they see it?

Physical separation is definitely the 100% sure way to avoid any accidents between the two. However, as someone pointed out earlier, it's not just our playground it's theirs too. I don't know how hard it is to get the kite back in the air after a wipe out if they're in deep water. I would think Lac Bay being shallow would be more to their liking. Maybe it's getting too crowded down there now? Maybe the kiters need to go through a mandatory orientation and get some kind of tag like the divers do now?

why is it so difficult for a diver to say to themselves.. well, the kiters sometimes come this far north or this far south, so I should be prepared to use a signaling device.. it's not a whole lot different than saying to oneself.. there is a lot of boat traffic in this area, I should use a dive flag.. it's just common sense. A diver may also say to oneself that there is just too much boat traffic here, I'll dive elsewhere... so maybe a diver could say to themselves that there is just too much kite traffic here, I'll dive elsewhere. Ban the kiters? give them a little area? There's a lot of other places that the kiters aren't. BTW, I believe the kiters were banned from lac bay and would love to go back, instead of an offshore wind taking you to who knows where, you could have an onshore wind, and wouldn't need that little boat to bring you back in when you're miles from shore. (I'm not a kiter, just looking at things objectively, and how I might address them as a diver) also, kiters do have to get a water use tag.

(Message edited by subaqua on June 12, 2006)

And how difficult for a kiter to say,' my limits are... and I will honor them'. Kiters were banned from Lac Bai because they endangered others.

As for talking to kiters before a dive:

1. They are generally out on the water. How many will come ashore to talk????

2. How about those who come after divers submerge???

Out of curiosity, Jim, where on the Charles is there that kind of current?? My only experience was from Cambridge toward Boston to the dam: I don't remember current there. Nearer the Head of the Charles? In Boston? Are you coming to the NH BT do??

(Message edited by glenr on June 12, 2006)

I do a fair amount of diving and am adept at using signaling devices of various types. Many of my dives are solo with my camera. I cannot imagine carrying a spool (of any sort) and trailing/deploying a signal marker and have no interest in doing so. The visual I have of many of the divers we see here dealing with task loading is not a pretty picture and provides danger of it's own.


There is a simple solution to a dangerous situation. A marked channel and kiting off the reef. The kite folks have a chase boat to help if someone is taken offshore due to prevailing winds and I see this as workable for all parties involved.


I believe that we can all play together but unlike diving, where we have guidelines to follow, there are no such things for the kite surfers. Maybe it is about time.

Well said Susan! I agree, that if everyone brought a surface marker and used it while diving...well...not only does that bring with it a whole new pleathera of problems, but the kite surfers may not know what the markers are for, or boaters passing by may not know what they are for.

Kite surfers should have rules and designated areas to surf, just like divers do. There are areas where we can't dive (like BOPEC), etc...kite surfing and diving don't mix period...so, next time you have to abort a dive, or almost get hit by a kite surfer, call the marine park office when you get back to your hotel, or drop by the office in person. If you give them details, in regard to what the problem is, it may help drive a solution.

(Message edited by cyndelee on June 12, 2006)

OK, one more (after a LONG day at work)...we took our boat to Catalina this last weekend. We anchored off shore of a "dive site." We had TWO large dive flags displayed off the boat, and the one person on the boat had to watch, with an air horn to alert the small dinghies trolling along shore that there were divers in the water. We've taken dive boats to Catalina for years and have heard the dinghy motors above...and fear to surface. The boat captains stand and watch, blow their horn, and yell for folks to stay out of the way. Several folks have been hit, they have rolled on their stomach and had their tanks hit. Sites on Catalina island are becoming scarce for good diving as the eco environment has been destroyed by fishing, diving, and boating, and there are fewer and fewer places to safely anchor and dive (but that's another story)..so, in retrospect to my safety sausage comment...I doubt if you asked 100 people who didn't dive, in a location where folks dive, what a dive flag meant, or a surface marker meant, they would have no idea.

Personally, I don't want to spend a LOT of money on a dive vacation when I have to worry about getting hit by a kite surfer. I can dive locally and worry about the same problems and spend a lot less money...

I agree with Susan, there is room for everyone but there have to be some guidelines in place before someone gets seriously injured (and I don't want it to be me).

off to get a glass of wogga...

Add us to the count of divers who have had close calls with fast moving kite-boarders - ours have all been at Margate and Fish Hut. We know Fish Hut is close to the Atlantis kite launching area, but we went out mid-morning before any kiters were in the water (they were setting up down at Atlantis) - coming in one guy was zipping back and forth right in front of our two trucks and we had to look for the opportunity to make the final 50 yards to shore (after seeing and hearing him flying over repeatedly). My son (25) was regrettably confrontational and fully testosteroned - yelled at the guy that there were three more divers needing to come in and the kiter slowed and yelled he could easily dodge us - my son then invited him to step to the shore and settle it like men (or something to that effect) but the kiter declined and sailed off to the north not to be seen again. The incidents (at least three) at Margate where we are "regulars" were more serious because they were evidently unskilled and semi out-of control in the elkhorn/staghorn shallows where snorklers often swim and divers are coming/going. AND - the rescue boat, propeller turning was right in there - maybe 5 feet of water on one occasion. And last April there indeed was a morning (about 10 AM!!!) kiter sailing between Tori's and the Salt Pier.

Kite boarding is totally cool, and I appreciate the gung-ho attitude of these folks - they have that pioneer excitement that goes with a radical new (relatively) sport and they are sensational to watch and I want to do it myself - BUT we're convinced that this mixing in the same space of two such different ways of utilizing that space is going to result in a serious collision one day. It truly does need to be regulated in some form, and the people to do that are obviously the Marine Park people.

A Kite board came with in 10 feet of my husband while we were snorkeling at one of the southern sites. It really is quite scary!

Hi Glen,

Sorry to take so long, work actually expected me to do well... work. Can you imagine the audacity of them.

First I've heard about the NH thing. PM me about it please.

The ramp I was talking about is up river near Watertown Square. It's an old MDC ramp that's still in operation. The ramp is on the inside of a bend in the river so the current is a little more focused in that spot. It's not much but it doesn't take much to move a 16' - 22' boat when the stern is floating free and it's broadside to the current. A couple of feet is all it takes to start making things interesting. Most people make out fine. But every now and then you get a Darwin Award candidate.

Anyway, my point here is that the kiters apparently aren't breaking any laws. If rules and regulations need to be enacted for them that's fine. Bonaire can deal with it in whatever fashion it chooses. Realistically though I don't think anything happening in the immediate future unless there is a serious accident that forces the government to act. So we have a choice, grouse about it until the government acts or hell freezes over whichever comes first, or we can do something to make our prescience known BEFORE we break the surface. Could there be a curiosity factor, sure, but conversely there can also be a curiosity factor over our shadow in the shallows too. Although it's kind of hard to argue that you thought a bright orange float might be a sea turtle in the surf so you went over to take a look. The point being that without something to alert people on the surface to our prescience they can always say that they didn't see us until it was too late. With an SMB there is no doubt in anyones mind that SOMETHING is in the water. If they don't know what an SMB is then that can be addressed when they pick up their water use tag.

I was taught that it was our responsibility as an independent certified diver to whenever possible make our prescience known to people/boats on the surface before surfacing, if not throughout the entire dive, and to ensure that the surface was clear of obstruction before surfacing. Otherwise it was our own fault if we surfaced in front of or under something and got hit.

I also question the arguments about task loading. If the dive team (whether that be a solo diver or a group of ten) is so max'ed out that it can't take on one fairly simple task while resting at the safety stop at the end of the dive then shouldn't the general safety of that dive plan be in question? If the team is that overloaded then there is no way it can respond to an emergency if one were to occur. Imo that's an unsafe position to be in and personally I'd thumb the dive.

I think Susan P has again, made some good points. She lives on Bonaire, and has had hundreds of dives there. I still think that the kiters and boaters will be more curious about a surface marker and want to get close to see what it is. Any questions in regard to Susan's dive abiliites or knowledge of diving on the island, please click on her profile.

I'm trying to get the correct email address for the Marine Park. When I do, I suggest those of you that have had near misses or had to abort dives, please email them and give them the specifics of the incident. We need to start reporting these. If we don't, they won't know the frequency of the incidents.

Here is the email for the Marine Park Office.

marinepark@stinapa.org

Thank you Grasshopper. Let's get the word over to the Marine Park. And thank you Susan for the clear and constructive contribution to this escalating issue.

I'll just chime in here, that reporting anything you see that seems wrong to the Marine Park is a good idea, including hot dogging boaters too close to shore, and threatening kiteboarders who feel that rules do not apply to them.

From the number of messages in this thread, it's becoming clear that a little vigilante action against certain kite-surfers will be interesting. Most dive groups have one or two people who don't do every dive, so we'll set that person up for "shore duty" with a radio-controlled aircraft. Something from here would be a start:
http://www.rc-airplane-world.com/

The tricky part will be augmenting the aircraft to terminate selected kite-surfers. Initially I was thinking cutting the kite-line somehow would be good, but I'm afraid that might terminate the r/c airplane as well.
Perhaps a r/c flamethrower on the craft would be a more spectacular solution?

Jim,

I thought that the ramp had to be a ways from the Basin.

Re kiters. You say that kiters are apparently not breaking established rules or law. I can't speak to specific laws or rules used but kiters were banned from Lac by some authority on island because they were considered a menace to wind surfers; that is why we see them on the lee side of the island. There were threads here about it when it happened with kiters very indignant.

Perhaps divers need to look closely at what the windies did to see how to have something done to control kiters on the west side. I expect reports to at least CURO, STINAPA and the island police by those actually endangered would be a step forward.

As I said above somewhere, I was hoping that one or more of the STINAPA and CURO members who regularly read BT would comment for us here.

Re the NH BT do: I'll describe it here because it is a 'main thing' for NE BT'ers. I suspect there is already a thread about this year's do somewhere but I couldn't find it. Maybe one will start again from this, or we will be given a reference. I am sure another thread about it will spring up as we get nearer to August.

Anyway, it is a pot luck BBQ hosted by Corny and John Carter at their home in Bow, NH, which attracts 30-40 BT'ers. Scheduled for 5 August this year. The stars are the Richter family. ;–)

I sent an e-mail early yesterday afternoon to info@stinapa.org pointing them to this thread and then asking the following questions:
(1) Does STINAPA (and/or Bonaire Marine Park) have control over the kite-surfers (i.e., are the kite-surfers governed by STINAPA/BMP rules)?
(2) Is STINAPA aware of the safety issues / concerns when kite-surfers are using dive sites while divers are in the water?
(3) Are kite-surfers also required to purchase a Marine Park tag? If so, is the requirement enforced?
(4) Are there plans to either (a) convert some of the lesser-used dive sites into kite-surfing sites or (b) create new sites dedicated to kite-surfers? (Last year, and again on the above-referenced thread, I had suggested establishing new sites for kite-surfers, perhaps interspersed with existing dive sites and identified by sky-blue stones vs. the yellow stones marking dive sites. These new sites could be named by the kite-surfing community as a way of getting their buy-in, and reserved exclusively for kite-surfer. Also they and the concept of dedicated sites could be publicized much as Bonaire does for both diving and wind surfing.)

Have not yet heard back from them but will post any response I receive.

I have forwarded my experience to the Marine Park. Thanks, Cynde, for the email address.

I'd also like to point out that as a snorkeler, I should be quite visible to a Kite Surfer without any SMB ! It's a matter of paying attention to your surroundings...me and the kiter!

Speak of the Devil: the NE BBQ thread is at http://www.oldbonairetalk.com/newsgroup/messages/27/269074.html?1150291175 below.

Hi Glen,

Actually it wasn't my claim that they're not breaking any laws but that of previous posters. In fact that was part of their complaint that there were no regulations on the use of kite boards in the park. With nothing to the contrary, at least for the time being, I have to accept that as true.

I can definitely understand the kiters being upset about being kicked out of Lac Bay. Otoh I can also see the safety issue with windsurfers and kite lines. It's just too bad they couldn't have worked out some way to share the area. But be that as it may, they are on the west coast and probably are not going away for at least the immediate future so that means that divers will have to deal with them whether we like it or not. If they are coming too close to divers or causing a problem then by all means report the incident to the proper authorities. That's the only way anything will change. My point was merely that in the short term to increase your safety while exiting the dive until this situation is handled on an official level it is more prudent to make your prescience known than to surface without warning. However, if people prefer to surface unannounced in an area known to have kite boarders around and then claim foul when there's an accident, hey, who am I to stop them? Just let me get my lawn chair and a video camera first though. I'll split the money with them if it wins on America's Funniest Videos. :-)

Jim,
I, for one, am not amused.

Jim

---

quote:

However, if people prefer to surface unannounced in an area known to have kite boarders around and then claim foul when there's an accident, hey, who am I to stop them? Just let me get my lawn chair and a video camera first though. I'll split the money with them if it wins on America's Funniest Videos. :-)

---

I agree with Susan and Grasshopper 100%, not amusing at all.

Jim. You have a strange sense of humor. In general it's best to not try to be funny when discussing a serious issue. The kiter will not be injured, the diver could sustain catastrophic injuries. That's the real issue here the way I see it.

Bonaire is known for it's diving, NOT kiting.
Someone gets their head split opened by a Kiter, it would be all over the internet..Not good for the diver, the diver's family nor tourism for the island. My point is a lot of people could be hurt, not just the diver.

Vince is correct, and the rest of the comments here have done the best job yet in moving toward a workable, balanced solution. I am an e-klutz (being over 13 years old) in regards to the archive thing, but I know there are at least two other threads on this topic (we started one of them) - and they illustrate how people's concerns over kiters and divers sharing the same space has been escalating. If one of you who knows how to do it would be so kind as to pull out the archived threads on the topic and send those to the Marine Park (maybe with cc to Jack Chalk, STINIPA and whatever organization the kiters have) with a note to the effect that these threads help demonstrate the escalation of this dangerous (to divers anyways) trend. Not to act as Director - I'm just not sure how to do this electronically...

In 2004, my son and I had just surfaced near fish hut and returned to shore when we saw a pod of dolphins heading south. My son grabbed his snorkle and swam out. The dolphins were all around him; it was very cool. Within a few seconds, a kiter made a beeline for the dolphins from deep water, charging into the pod and my kid. The dolphins submerged and didn't come back up where we could see. The boy made it out ok. The kiter headed north and shortly wiped out. Apparently he did not possess the skills to maintain control. It could have been a very ugly situation.

Like everything else, it only takes a few jerks to cause bad feelings towards all of them. Too bad.

Jeff, I encourage you to email the Marine Park (link above in an earlier post) about the incident. If no one reports these, the Marine Park will not know the frequency.

I can relate to the fear induced anger of being buzzed by a kiter however, I do hope that more is done to allow that sport to grow on Bonaire.

While the idea of "safe lanes" for divers is great idea, I do not feel it is a cure-all as snorkelers would have an extremely limited area to play at these sites. Plus, many times in the years I have been diving, I have seen divers that apparently did not learn how to navigate surface far away from shore to get their bearings. While I agree that they might be safer doing so with a sausage, I do not believe that is a cure-all either, especially when the sausage is connected to a line. Like kiters, new divers are not always in control every minute they are in the water.

Dr. Director's recommendation is in my mind the best idea presented so far - give the kiters their own sites. The issue here is that all of the easiest access sites on the west side are already marked as dive sites. Would it be fair to give the kiters access at sites which divers and snorkelers consider dangerous entries? I think not.

In order to be fair to all, why not alternate closing sites to diving and snorkeling for a period of time. This would give the kiters a place where they could enjoy their sport, possibly lead to less dangerous interactions between the sports and have the added benefit of allowing the area to recover from the impact of divers. After a period of time the sites could change.

As Jack Chalk said in his post at:
http://www.oldbonairetalk.com/cgi-local/bbs/show.cgi?tpc=2488&post=292225#POST292225

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quote:

all parties need to sit together with mutual respect for each others rights, likes and dislikes and be willing to compromise on both sides.

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A thought:

When I was growing up in Southern California, there was a similar issue with surfers--particularly loose surf boards (this is back when they were really big ) could and did injure body surfers, swimmers and kids playing along the shore. The solution there was to allow surfing only at certain times of the day. Anyone else in the water swam at their own risk during those times. This could be a way to allow everyone to peacefully and safely coexist.

Not amused? Oh well that's life for ya. Some people have thinner skin than others. I guess you're just going to have learn to deal with that. In the mean time may I suggest a helmet? Besides protecting from insensitive louts like me, it'll help when surfacing without warning in front of oncoming kiters, boats, and the occasional overly territorial flamingo. Lights can be mounted to it for hands-free night diving, camping, power failures, or even fixing flat tires on the road at night for that added level of functionality.

Now, what I find unamusing is professional level divers that can't be bothered with a simple safety procedure that could potentially avoid a serious accident because they plan their dives so that they're so task overloaded that they can't handle even one more thing. Divers with professional level credentials set the examples for less experienced divers to follow. What example does that set?

Hey Vince, your estimation of the outcome of an impact between a kiter and a diver sure are biased don't you think? Did you give any thought to what it might feel like, or what the potential injuries would be, from slamming into a metal tank at 20 mph? That's why BOTH parties should be paying attention and doing their best to avoid each other. And where interaction is likely, take special precautions to avoid each other and make sure the other person sees them.

I understand the frustration of dealing with people that have an "I'll do whatever I want" attitude. There's a minority of them in every sport or activity and by extension they make everybody around them look bad too. But that's a case by case thing and shouldn't be reason to condemn the entire lot. You wouldn't want all divers branded as incompetent and have all diving require a locally certified DM present like Town and Salt Piers because a small group of divers were screw ups would you? I think you, like me, would want the screw ups dealt with and the rest left in peace.

Anyway, I agree with the "give them their own area" camp. Then there won't be any more issues.

Alex - the comparison to surfers is a good one. On the Jersey Shore most of the beaches have areas set aside for surfers and the guards whistle at the swimmers to stay out of that area. Not that there will be lifeguards at every site to monitor activities, possibly both groups can learn and agree to respect each others' space.

Grasshopper and Tom, you guys are right, in order to be effective, the incidents should be reported promptly. I was pretty pi**ed off when it happened but within a few minutes of this guy's act he had a massive wipe out. He was hurt pretty badly and I know that he was taken to the hospital to get sewn up; the coral did a number on him. My anger sort of went away while we were helping him get loaded into his buddies truck for the trip to town. It may have been divine intervention or karma or whatever but I figure he learned a lesson.

I would like to add my husband and I as two divers who have had problems with dangerously close calls while surfacing. We try to stay down a bit and watch the surface for the signs of a board coming our way before surfacing. We love Margate and never had a problem there until this year when there were many kiters there every day. The close call that really torqued me was when we had just surfaced and our heads were well up and this kiter thought it would be cute to buzz by my husband's head by inches, he said "Hello" and laughed like this was the funniest thing and kept going. One little lurch of either one of them and it would have been terrible.
Do they have an orientation like the divers do before they are allowed to kite surf? If so, I hope the people who give the talks would include some information on divers and how to try to be safe in the same areas until someone gets badly hurt or killed and Bonaire is forced to look at this issue.
I was not too concerned until this year but the sport is growing very fast on Bonaire and, while I do think diving and kiting both have a place there, this is getting dangerous and there needs to be some lanes for entering and exiting the water and otherwise the kiters could stay out of the shallows. I wouldn't mind trying it myself and don't think those rules would hinder good kiting on Bonaire.

I agree with Susan BSDME about the best solution being a marked channel and kiting off the reef with a dedicated chase boat. Based on what I have seen in the past, there is no guarantee that even if kiters were allotted specific sites that all of them would be able to stay within the allotted areas at all times. Seems risky to count on that. And I can't imagine a kiter being able to swerve or stop in time if a diver (or their sausage for that matter) suddenly popped up in front of them.

So what says they'll all stay in the allotted channel or far enough offshore? How does this effect their safety? Who pays for the chase boat? Is it fair to force that expense on them? Will the prescience of the chase boat itself increase or decrease safety for divers in the area? Will the unintended consequence of having to listen to a boat engine for the entire dive increase or decrease the enjoyment of the diving? Given how far sound travels underwater, how large an area will be effected by this new noise pollution from the chase boats?

You're quite correct though that a kiter probably will not be able to avoid a diver, or SMB, if it pops up right in front of them. But then that's the whole point. Which would you prefer to be hit, the SMB or the diver? My first choice would be the SMB.

Jim,
There has been a chase boat in use for over a year now.

Maybe the chase boat could chase them back where they belong?

Draw and quarter just one kite surfer, and word would get around.

Susan,

Then why would there be a problem with keeping them in their own designated area?

But either way, thanks for letting me know. I'll be sure to avoid that area when we're there this fall. I'd much rather tangle with a kiter than their chase boat, or have to listen to it for the entire dive for that matter.

Jim,
There is no designated area, no guidelines. That has been my point all along.

And what I was just talking about was the rejection of the idea of giving them their own designated area with the argument being that not all of them will stay in it.

As for your point see my previous posts on the subject.

Atlantis seems to already have become the designated area for kiters to launch. Why would it be so difficult for them to use a wide marked channel at that site to gain access to deep water, at which point they could move up and down the coast to several other sites (the total number of sites should be limited so the chase boat can function effectively and so, as Jim pointed out, noise pollution is restricted)? While kiting, it should be easy to read the water and see where the reef is, and stay on the ocean side of it. And as Susan pointed out, there is already a chase boat in operation. Although I am not a kiter and so perhaps don't have a complete understanding of what is involved, it seems to me that falling off in deep water isn't much different from falling in shallow water - no touching the corals, so no touching the bottom anyway! I'm sure currents and wind action can be scary, especially for novices, but their effects would be countered by the chase boat. With the single access channel idea, kiters would only have to stay in one restricted area, and can gain familiarity with how best to do that. Converting a selection of dive sites to kiting, each with it own shore access, creates a lot more opportunities to not stay in a designated area. Kiting off the reef solves that problem. Another issue is, if sites are designated as kiting sites, who is going to be there to enforce that restriction? No one - the Marine Park staff is too small. Therefore there will be no enforcement. If kiters are going to be allowed to use the west side, the Marine Park does need to get involved in an official capacity to set guidelines or rules for use. Even with official guidelines, compliance will continue to be up to the integrity and skills of the individuals involved.

Blue, I don't believe you'll find the kiters in favor of your proposal. For all its speed and hang time potential, the kite's aerodynamic efficiency is limited to running (sailing downwind), reaching (across the wind), and very limited close reaching (sailing slightly upwind, maybe 10-20 degrees toward the shoreline than directly parallel). The main reason for the chase boat is to rescue liters who "slip" increasingly farther offshore. This is a major problem for the less experienced kiters and is a problem for even the really experienced folks if the wind gets too strong. PLUS - most of them far prefer to sail in the relatively flat water very close to shore. So you see they have no or little desire to sail out beyond the reef.

Perhaps we need to install buoyed lines north and south of Atlantis that run our to sea and fine those kiters who cross the lines? This would, admittedly, be a blight on the natural look of the area and it would require personnel to enforce the rules. Not as much of a blight as a cracked skull ... and I agree, with the attitude and ineptitude displayed by some of the kiters, it's only a matter of time ... Are you listening Marine Park Officials.

It is, may I add, a grossly inequitable situation that the kiters are not required to pay the park fees. Gawd knows they're using the park - they've totally taken over Atlantis, previously one of our favorite spots to dive. Atlantis has become their base camp, launch site (kites and boats), party site - how is trash, beach damage, turtle egg protection (this is one of those areas), etc being handled. Who is responsible there?

Kiters do in fact pay the ten dollar "nature fee." All users of the Marine Park pay for the privilege.

Who checks the kiters for their proof of payment tags, as dive ops do divers diving or picking up tanks?? Just curious.

Of course the real question is why all users of the water don't pay the same fee. All 'use the water' to about the same degree. Seems as though the island is milking it's most important cash cow the hardest.

Everybody can have all sorts of suggestions, some reasonable some not. Fact is the kitters are going to kite where they please (Tori's Reef) and even more times than not where they don't please, most of em do good to just stay in an upright position. It will simply be up to me and my buddy to watch out for um!!!

James

I have personally known many of the kiteboarding community members here on Bonaire for several years now, basically since the very beginning of the sport here on Bonaire.

The operators of Kiteboarding Bonaire are extremely safety conscious and very approachable about issues like this.

Obviously they cannoy exert control over everybody using their facilities, so the only solution is to acknowledge that 1. this is going on, 2. has the full approval of the Marine Park at the present location (I was at the meeting), and 3. he/she has to learn the proper way to deploy an SMB (Surface Marker Buoy) wanting to co-use a site like Atlantis with kiteboarders.

If anybody needs advice or a dive with me to learn how to notify surface traffic and avoid accidents using an SMB, I'd be more than willing to help out.

All the best,

Benji

Glen,

Kiteboarding Bonaire provides the 10$ tags for their customers on the beach out of their facilities.

Best,

Benji

Benji,

I am glad the kiters buy the tags; never questioned that actually.

You haven't addressed the kiters who are inshore at sites other than Atlantis: they are a danger to divers that should not be. If divers must learn to use SMB's at Atlantis then kiters must learn to stay beyond the drop-off when outside Atlantis. These are a teaching responsibility of those who sell kiting experiences. Perhaps it should be a legal responsibility.

Divers in the water do not endanger kiters; kiters endanger divers. Thus the kiters bear more responsibility than the divers. Just like drivers versus pedestrians.

I hope that it will not take a diver death or serious injury to bring all this home on Bonaire.

Benji mentions a meeting of the BMP at which he was present that addressed all this. Can someone please give us a view of the meeting and/or any statement(s) made by the BMP. And rules and all that jazz. URL's would do.

Glenn, I totally agree with your comments. On our recent 3 week trip to Bonaire my husband and I had three close calls in-water with kiters and witnessed at least 10 kiters in shallow water from shore. Many kiters are not staying beyond the drop-off. Some even seem to enjoy gleefully buzzing divers on the surface. We actually had one kiter flash us a peace sign as he passed within 6 feet of us and we were STANDING in the water prior to exiting. As far as Atlantis being the only site used by kiters, that's a joke. We saw them from Margate to Pink Beach. It's nerve racking and an accident is surely going to happen.

Please note that I do not kiteboard, nor do I have any financial interest in kiteboarding on Bonaire. I've not been authorized by either the Marine Park or the kiteboarding community to post on BT. Please regard all my posts as expressions of personal opinion and an effort to moderate between two fascinating water activities.

According to the kitesurfing community, there's legislation in the pipeline that regulates kitesurfing on Bonaire somewhat. The existing legislation seems not to be sufficient. Right now, no watercraft may go faster on the shallow terrace/light blue area/within the buoys of the marine park than (as far as I know, correct me if I'm wrong) idle speed/no wake speed. This is the current legislation. Kiteboarders sometimes ride in this area.
This being Bonaire, not everything is enforced at all times, so be patient and understanding.
The kiteboarding community I know regrets these incidents and does NOT use the "no speeding zone" for teaching outside of Atlantis.

The new legislation will apparently cement the kiteboarding presence at Atlantis and will also clearly label trespassing on other sites as violation of the law, so that enforcements are easier.

The whole discussion reminds me very strongly of 30 years ago, when fishermen claimed that divers were scaring the fish away, tampered with nets and traps, cut lines and being a general nuisance.
Times change, and especially in a place like Bonaire, change takes time.

In the meantime: 1. Use SMBs properly in areas were you might encounter other surface users. 2. Talk to the boys, and don't rant online. Your kids might actually like kiteboarding... 3. Be patient. 4. Be safe.

Best,

Benji