http://www.thedailyherald.com/news/daily/j165/Accord165.html contains the facts, http://www.thedailyherald.com/news/daily/j165/edit165.html contains the editorial. These are from Sint Maarten's daily newspaper, which is published in English. My favorite source of English language Antillean news.

Dutch news papers mention that the minister Nicolai will continue as much as possible with the 3K (the 3 little islands) as they should not suffer by the decision of Curacao and they work already with technical help from Holland on transission details .....
For St.Maarten the problem is much bigger as it would have the same autonomous status as Curacao

There are some articles in Amigoe as well :
http://www.amigoe.com/english/

I don't believe that the behaviour of the ministers on Curacao will affect Bonaires transition.

The people of Curacao voted for links with Holland but the Government have chosen to ignore public interest over their own status.

Curacao is in a terrible state. Corruption, crime and a huge debt hangs from their necks like Marleys chain. They have no other choice than to relinquish more control to Holland in order to turn the country around. Independence is out of the question.

Their only other option is for closer ties with Venezuela and I don't think for a minute that Holland will put up with Chavez calling the shots.

There are several protest actions starting on Curacao by unhappy citizians. People driving around in cars with signs like "14 idiots destroy the future of our childre" , the is a web site where people can click Yes or No about the Slotverklaring. The 2 bigger parties voting Yes have resigned from the island council, so now these No voters trying to form a new government for Curacao. Normally the Central Government has to resign to form a government reflecting the Curacao Island Council, but they will not do it this time. In the Central Government is only 1 party who voted No and they are out now, but with the members of St.Maarten, Bonaire, Saba & St. Eustatius there is still a slim majority to continue on the central level.

Tony, here is some food for thought. When the UK gave some islands complete independence, such as Grenada, bad juju immediately started to happen. The poverty level on Grenada sunk to even new lows then they had ever been under British rule. Secondly, they started alliging themselves with Fidel and company on Cuba. Fidel, whose own country was in dire poverty, immediately jumped on the chance to help create more Marxists in the western hemisphere. With Regan in power as president, it was a recipe for disaster. Hence, the invasion of Grenada. Bishop gets overthrown, etc. Unfortunately, I see some parallels with Curacao and Venezuela. Plus, we have already witnessed in our lifetime what measures the Bush family will go to over oil.

Oh yes, Tony, can you please spell color and behavior correctly in the future? LOL

(Message edited by JimMc on December 9, 2006)

Hi all!,I dont understand exactly what Curacao have chosen,will it get completely independant from Holland?

Victor, about 2 years ago all 5 islands of the Netherlands Antilles had a referendum how to continue. People could choose between 1)staying in the Netherlands Antilles 2) status aparte more or less like Aruba 3) direct link to The Netherlands 4) independance
Independance got depending on the island between 3% and 12% of the votes - on the 2 big islands (St.Maarten and Curacao) the majority of the votes were for the Status Aparte - and the 3 small islands (Bonaire, St.Eustatius and Saba) voted for the direct link with Holland. Since the referendum quite a number of meetings took place between the Islands and Holland, between the small islands and Holland, St.Maarten with Holland, Curacao with Holland .... and in November there was the big final meeting in Holland and everybody nicely signed a new agreement and had champagne afterwards .... only coming home, some of the Curacao politicians did not agree any longer, they thought the accord was not good enough - there were meetings of the Island council and accusations like Colonialism and supervision of Holland etc were shouted - one even said (Pierre) if it does not go back to the negociating table, he will ask Chavez (!!!) for help - and when the Island Council voted, there was a majority against the agreement. These 14 politians want that Holland pays all the debts they have accumulated (rather a lot for such a little island) but they do not want that Holland has the right to look into figures (they must have learned something from Chavez....) and they do not want that Holland has supervision of the Police and Judges , and they do not want the school system changed . Means they want the money, they want the Dutch passport, they want to stay in the Dutch Kingdom .... but .... they want to do what they want without anybody looking into anything ...... Today there was a protest action in Curacao against that decision of these politicians, but as I am in the office, I have no idea how many people participated....

Brigitte, that is exactly what I was referring to above. What frightens me is Hugo's proximity to the islands. It already appears his hand of friendship is extending out into other places that have social unrest. Also, with his oil revenues, he can make it very attractive for them to shake that hand.

Interesting enough, while I was typing this response, CITGO has started a massive advertising campaign in the states about using Venezuelan oil. It seems a large boycott movement has already started. It was just on the kitchen TV. Let's see, let's boycott Venezuelan oil because of Hugo Chavez, and give our business to middle eastern countries who love us so much they even want to reduce the price so our economy becomes stable. What a mess.

Take your pick between Citgo or Lukoil (Russian). Neither are friends of the U.S. The largest global producer is Saudi Arabia & it's quite questionable as to their remaining capacity to produce. Their oil fields are getting old; no new discoveries and their capacity is kept closely guarded & not subject to independent verification. .

A clear shot was fired across our bow back in the 1970's with the first Arab oil embargo. The long gas lines, odd-even days, physical altercations breaking out on the lines etc. The point is we in the U.S. did not learn our lesson. Gov should have launched a program for energy independence with the same intensity as the Manhattan Project decades earlier. But alas, there were other competing interests which circumvented it.

As I drive around today I see the ubiquitous trucks/gas guzzlers/SUVs on our highways.. Either we wean ourselves off fossil fuels with renewable energy sources or I suspect there will be many many more problems in the future. What a shame to give the oil producers so much money & global power.

Amen, Vince....

Brigitte, thank you for your in-depth explanation/interpretation as to what has already occurred and what might occur in the future. It makes it much easier for some of us "outsiders" to understand the process and how it is transpiring.

We have been away from the island for almost two years now and will be returning the Spring. I am looking forward to our return and learning about the changes occurring in the area before we get there.

The situation in Venezuela is one which we all should be aware of and keep an eye on, as well.

Thanks again. cb

Vince, read Robert Baer's books, Sleeping With the Devil and See No Evil. He was a spook in the Middle East for over 25 years. It gives very credible insight on the Saudis and just what is really going on behind closed doors. I could not agree with your above post more.

Thank you Mr.Brigitte for your excellent explanation and clear interpratation of what is happening.Getting closer to Chavez would be the biggest mistake Curacao could make,Venezuela is a complete disaster,politicians do whatever they want and nobody stops them just because they support Chavez,that is their great revolution,everybody is trying to get as much as they can,and God! is that what Curacao wants to copy?

Sorry!,I wrote Mr. instead of Mrs.,I appologize Mrs.Brigitte for this mistake.

Yeah, Brigitte, that was a wonderful explanation. Made the situation completely clear, and I hadn't been able to understand it. Thanks!

New development: today the Dutch province of Noord Holland (in which lies Amsterdam, the Dutch capital) announced that it will propose Bonaire, St. Eustatius and Saba to join it in July, when the new status of those islands as "normal" Dutch communities probably will come into effect. Other provinces have hinted that they will probably do the same. So it looks like everything will go ahead as planned and Bonaire will be under Dutch law. In wonder how American Bonairian residents/pensionados feel about this, living in a country where guns are illegal but euthanasia and soft drugs aren't, where even the most extreme right wing party would be probably be considered too liberal on some issues, judged by American political standards. Well, you're all welcome anyway!

Very interesting Alex..Any idea if Bonaire will stay with the guilder tied to the US dollar or go the way of the Euro as the official currency.

Alex,

Shall we expect "coffeeshops" to open in Playa?

Alex,

Some of us moved to Bonaire (or at least left the U.S.) for the reasons you mention

Thanks for the welcome!

Alex

Alex V.,

Don't 'American Bonairian residents/pensionados' already live in a country where guns are illegal: the Netherlands Antilles? It appears to me that their choice has already been made.

It seems also that Alex is showing some smug Dutch chauvinism; based on how much personal experience in the US, Alex?

(Message edited by glenr on December 20, 2006)

(Message edited by glenr on December 20, 2006)

Vince, at the moment it is very difficult to get accurate and to the point info, but it seems likely that in a normal Dutch community the Euro would be the currency. But I can also imagine there will be a substantial transition period. It seems unlikely, in any case, that the Antillian Guilder will remain, as Bonaire officially will have nothing to do with the Antilles anymore. So brace yourselves, as you will probably go through the same thing we did when we lost the Dutch guilder to the Euro, a lot of businesses, especially in the cafe/restaurant trade, took advantage of it and raised their prices. In some cases this resulted in an almost 100% price increase. What will probably happen is that $-prices will change to €-prices, without the amount changing (from $5 to €5). At this moment that's bad news, as €1 = $1,31 (1$ = €0,75). It is good news for home-owners though, I guess those prices will go up as well, also because a certain amount of Dutch pensionados and sun seekers will now have less hesitation of giving Bonaire a try

David: As for the (in)famous "coffee shops": I don't know if they'll be allowed. I think under the current law councils can veto/ban them, and I imagine Bonaire will. But I don't think they will be able to stop people grow cannabis for personal use - current Dutch law is that anyone can grow up to 5 plants in his garden. They should grow wonderful on Bonaire, if watered enough. And I don't know if anybody ever saw a fully grown cannabis plant, but it's truly beautiful, so it's not all bad. I don't know if this is good news or bad news for you...?

(Other) Alex: Of course I know there are a lot of different opinions on the issues I mentioned in the USA as well. Seen the last elections, it is pretty much divided 50-50 at the moment. It was just a quick thought about which I wondered and then just I wrote down, nothing more. Furthermore it can't be denied that some US BT-ers take a not so liberal view at times, certainly when it comes to crime issues and the (already) Dutch based law.

Glen: what a pity that at such a genuine question (I truly wondered what not so liberal Americans -and there are a few, also on this board- might think about this change, after all, I didn't only mention guns - it was to put them into contrast with the things that ARE legal under Dutch law), you immediately resort to condemning me as someone "showing some smug Dutch chauvinism" who probably has no personal experience in the US.
Since you asked: I have friends and family in New York, New Jersey, California and Arizona, I've traveled quite a few times in various regions and States, usually far from the beaten track and meeting lots of wonderful people (and idiots as well, of course). I wonder how much personal experience you have in The Netherlands? Probably a lot, judging you know so much about our chauvinistic tendencies...

Alex,

Thank you for your thoughtful answer. With regard to cannibis, I'm past that stage in my life but I'm a libertarian when it comes to such issues. If it doesn't harm others, it's none of their business. I do believe that the criminalization of such activity is self-defeating.

I must admit that I had a negative reaction initially to your post, but I think such posts often don't convey the tone intended by the poster, and offense is taken where none is meant. Hence the proliferation of smiley faces, LOL's, and emoticons. Would be nice to see a discussion without animosity immediately cropping up.

I typed a long post likely to draw flames and fire, but thought better of it, having seen other threads go down the same silly trail.

It will be most interesting to see how this unfolds. I have spent some time in The Netherlands and found it to be one of the most civilized, in the best sense of the word, places I've visited. One wouldn't expect (or desire) Bonaire to become Holland with cactus and scuba.

If prices go up substantially Bonaire may lose some of her tourism, as at present it is something of a bargain.

We shall see...plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

Alex,

I simply asked questions, as you did; I certainly didn't *condemn* you: you're twisting of my words.

I am glad that you have experienced some of the US; I freely admit I have not been to the Netherlands, which is why I asked questions rather than making statements about the Dutch as a people. And I mentioned *your* seeming chauvinism, not all Dutch people, so please do not twist my words to your advantage.

Frank,

Thank you for not reacting negative to my post, as I had no intention of being nasty. (Please don't forget that I'm writing this in a foreign language, and that it is difficult to find the right words/phrases/tone at times. I speak six languages and some dialects, but that doesn't mean I always get it right, as I will never have the subtlety of language-feelings of a native speaker. And I know my profile says I'm a translator, but that doesn't include English, at least not translating Dutch into English.) Luckily you withdrew your "flames & fires" drawing post, as it takes very little to ignite some people, as to my misfortune I experienced in the past. Strangely, the more positive reactions tend to reach me via private mails, instead of posts, as already happened in this case also. I think a lot of people reading this board are wary of publicly expressing their views, which is a pity, but quite understandable, viewing some reactions.

I agree: let's not hope Bonaire turns into a sort of Holland in the tropics (we've tried that in the past and failed miserably, as history shows). Of course I thank you for your kind comments on The Netherlands, but there is a lot wrong in my country also, especially the last few years.

And indeed, as you so eloquently (or polyglottaly) put, most changes seem to lead to more of the same everywhere, let's just hope Bonaire will be an exception to the rule and keep the authentic qualities it still possesses, although increasing tourist pressure will not help this. Hopefully that the continuing growth of tourism will also not further damage the ecosystem above and under water, although that seems inevitable. More people = more airplanes = more cars = more divers = more restaurants = more waste = more airco's = more building = more undiscerning tourists = more pollution etc. I think prices will go up, but that it not will harm tourism. As you say, it is something of a bargain now (though that's relative to the amount of money you can spend; 95% of the world's population could not afford to vacation here), and a slight increase in price wouldn't matter a great deal, or just attract more affluent tourists. Now, I don't know if that's good or bad...

Sorry, David, it should be David, not Frank. But Frankly, you make it very hard having two first names, David Frank.

Just to be clear, I had no problem with Alex's post. My response was just my way of answering the question he raised, i.e. that I don't have a problem with a very different sort of government and set of laws than exists currently in the U.S. This is not to say that Holland is perfect, no country is, but I prefer the Dutch attitude towards issues like gun control and euthanasia, the examples Alex used.

I find it sad that a post that should have sparked a very interesting discussion seems to be turning into something else entirely. Alex's question is valid. How do Americans who live on Bonaire feel about the upcoming changes?

Well Alex V., I must say your usage of English is excellent (IMHO). I should be 1/10th as versatile in the language area as you obviously are!

I suspect that the tourism figures for Bonaire will escalate & if done in moderation & correctly will not materially adversely impact the fragile environment. I know the government has plans for a sanitation system which I believe is desperately needed as well as utilizing the wind energy on the east side to generate power. There seems to be a lot of ecologically minded people on the island so hopefully they will be successful in the transition.

It seems to me, and perhaps with investment from the Netherlands it could be more realistically accomplished, that Bonaire is ideally situated in many ways to have a "Green", carbon-neutral economy. Given the abundance of wind/ solar energy, it could give new meaning to eco-tourism. I would gladly pay a premium for an electric divemobile rather than a Hilux. What is with that one forlorn wind turbine on the East side by lac anyway?

Alex B, thanks for bringing this thread back to the issue I meant to bring up in my post.

Indeed, as stated before, Holland is not perfect, far from it, as I stated in my reply to David Frank. It just seems to me that anytime anyone brings up something on this board that might even remotely be explained as possibly being a little US-unfriendly (which my post wasn't), personal attacks on the poster follow. And I'm sick and tired about having to defend myself (or my country) every time somebody is too touchy about national (mostly US) issues.

So Glen, you say I twist your words and state that you "simply asked questions, as you did; I certainly didn't *condemn* you". I did not twist your words, instead you try to twist my words for a second time. Your defense is both grammatically and semantically incorrect.
Let's look at your initial post: "It seems also that Alex is showing some smug Dutch chauvinism; based on how much personal experience in the US, Alex?" First mistake: the first part is not a question, as your defense is, but a statement: you express your opinion about me; it seems (to you, as you do not speak for anybody but yourself) that I'm showing some smug Dutch chauvinism. I know Dutch chauvinism exists, but I didn't express it, you just said I did, so you're twisting my words, instead of vice versa (second mistake). With the second part of your answer you imply/suggest that I know nothing about the US - that's the underlying meaning, everybody knows that, so don't make a fool of yourself by trying to deny it (third mistake). Obviously, when I turn the table (I hope that's the correct expression) and show that I have more US-experience than you expected, and certainly more than you obviously have with The Netherlands, you resort to "I didn't say that, you did, you're twisting my words". Which is the fourth mistake, which is untrue, as I pointed out here, and which is furthermore rather childish and silly.

This is quite a long answer for something so trivial, but as I said earlier, I'm fed up defending myself every time some bully takes offence. Glen, if there's anything linguistic in this post you have problems with, please don't hesitate to answer - maybe in Dutch this time? Just for balance.

Vince, thanks for the compliment, but I know my English leaves a lot to be desired. But I try. Let's hope your expectations come ture and that the ecosystem and island will not be damaged too much.

Vince & David, I know there are a lot of ecologically minded people on the island, and I know the island is perfectly suited to all kinds of eco-friendly energy systems (sun, wind, sea) and eco-tourism. It's just that I hardly see any sun boilers, solar panels or wind turbines anywhere, and that most tourism seems not eco-minded. But it can change, and maybe Dutch investments can contribute, but I wouldn't expect to much of it. I think it will have to be initiated by Bonairians, old and new.

Time for dinner here in Amsterdam.

Enough said, Alex V. You have demonstrated yourself again.

So, when this transition occurs do the Dutch just take over the island or what? Will there be Dutch law, Dutch Cops and Dutch civil servants? Are the Dutch ecologically minded? If so, wouldn't that mentality transfer to the island? I'm just trying to figure out what might happen here.

Marcus, it's not a take-over. Bonaire has decided to become a "normal" Dutch municipality (I hope this term covers it) as of July 1, 2006. Antillian law will be replaced by Dutch law (no great changes, but a few). My guess is the local cops and civil servants will stay on and probably get some help with the transition and maybe some extra people to help with the transition. As far as the practical side of things is concerned, I think all of this will be done very gradually, but there will surely be some changes, but I have no insight in what those will be. I'm sure this will involve big things like all kinds of money matters, taxes, voting, eco-laws, building laws, etc, up to small things like stamps & political parties.

About the ecological mindedness of the Dutch: I think a lot of Dutch will say they care much about nature, but in the real world they like their cars and fridges as well as the next man. That said, I think the devastation that now takes place on Bonaire's eastern and northern coast (where the whole coastline is being stripped for use as building material, destroying a complete ecosystem for many miles) would not be condoned and criminal charges would be filed against those responsible. But this is long term; I think that, like the rest, changes will be slow and gradual.

By the way, anyone who's sending me private e-mails: sorry, my server is down (again).

David, there was another wind turbine at the Dive Inn for years. I never saw it working. I understand it was taken down and moved to an ice factory, somewhere inland. I don't know if it is operating or not.

Jim, Bab's took down the windmill because of insurance reasons. The mill was on the property as long as Bab's (20+yrs) The mill was sold for scrap. The internals are frozen and too old to repair. This information came from Bab's and Harry... Ron

Thanks Ron. I guess the salt air just coroded the insides too badly. It's a shame the damn thing never worked though. That big old hunk of burning love was an eyesore.

Yeah Jim, but it was also a landmark! Never had a problem finding Dive Inn!! :-)