By David F Pascoe (BonaireTalker - Post #22) on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 9:36 am: |
At approximately 1:00 a.m. this morning, Tuesday, October 12, a home in Sabadeco was entered by three armed men. They wanted money. When they were told there was no money of any great amount in the house they proceeded to beat and torture the occupants. One was beaten beyond recognition and the other was mutilated with a machete and burned with cigarettes.
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By Brian (bcj.) (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #136) on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 9:48 am: |
What is your source of this information?
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By Debbie Babcock (BonaireTalker - Post #84) on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 9:56 am: |
OMG, If this posting is true, it is truly, well, I can't think of any words right now to explain how I am feeling. Dave, please tell us how you came upon this information. This is very hard to comprehend without some validity to your post.
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By David F Pascoe (BonaireTalker - Post #23) on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 11:32 am: |
My neighbours... 2 of the nicest people that you will ever meet.
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By Jake Richter (Moderator - Post #5190) on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 11:37 am: |
Reports from Bonaire indicate there was an attack last night (exact or even coarse details unconfirmed) in Sabadeco, and that at least one of the victims is in the hospital and was beaten so badly as to be unrecognizable by someone who knows her well. This person we have been told is in the hospital is someone who has volunteered in our gallery - not sure of the status/location of her husband at this time.
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By Debbie Babcock (BonaireTalker - Post #85) on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 12:10 pm: |
Jake, Linda, My heart goes out to both of you. I certainly hope that whoever did this to your friends and David, your neighbors are in our prayers for a speedy recovery. I am truly at a loss for words hearing this type of tradegy on Bonaire and see no reason to do such a violent act to a human being. David, thank you for posting, I know it was hard for you, but better to be aware, and prepared than not.
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By Marcus L. Barnes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #201) on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 1:13 pm: |
Unbelievable - again. The fact that these guys felt they could get away with something this brutal is disturbing. Clearly, they have no fear of the Police or being caught. I still think Dutch Police should be deployed to Bonaire. I will be there in 10 days. As always, I refuse to yield to thugs. I appreciate David posting this. We will take the necessary precautions to ensure the odds are in our favor against something like this happening to us. 10 Days and wakeup!!
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By Randy P (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #220) on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 1:24 pm: |
Truly a sad state of affairs.
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By Brian (bcj.) (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #137) on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 1:28 pm: |
David: Are you saying your neighbors were your source of information, or that this happened to your neighbors?
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By jason thomas (BonaireTalker - Post #84) on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 1:45 pm: |
This is a warning to the people of Bonaire to remove their thumbs. Do you guys vote for the mayor or governor or whoever? Or, are they appointed?
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By Israel A. Sanchez (BonaireTalker - Post #74) on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 3:11 pm: |
When I read the heading I was hoping that someone would be exagerating, or simply trying to get our attention. Sadly, what had been predicted for awhile here, amid the denial of a few who keep insisting "it's just petty crime, just take your precautions" has happened. The nature of such crime is beyond brutal and barbaric. It points to miscreants without fear of reprisal, acting below human level. To torture and beat-up somebody to that extent, that simply points to sick minds stripped of all human dignity. My well wishes go for the recovery of the poor victims and their families. I hope the culprits receive vigilante justice, which although illegal, has been quite effective in many South American countries.
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By Lisa Barclay (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #295) on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 3:18 pm: |
David, Jake and Linda my prayers are with you and your friends as they recover from this horrible crime. I am also praying that the men responsible for this are found and held accountable so this doesn't have to happen to anyone else.
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By Jake Richter (Moderator - Post #5192) on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 4:15 pm: |
Brian,
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By Cynde (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #12442) on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 4:20 pm: |
Jake, please tell them that they are in our thoughts. And if there is anything that we can do, please let us know. I am very shaken by this as well.
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By Fiona Rattray (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #274) on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 4:42 pm: |
David, Jake, Linda, your neighbours and friends are
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By Carl Pflanzer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #113) on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 5:22 pm: |
My thoughts are with you today as I sit in my office in *safe* New Jersey. As badly as I feel for you and your neighbors and the Richters, I hope this is not a random act of violence which can in the future happen to anyone. I shall offer my prayers for a quick recovery. I too shall not yield to thugs and will visit again in January.
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By Brian (bcj.) (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #138) on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 6:21 pm: |
Jake: Thanks for clarifying.
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By Jane Marie Garchinsky (BonaireTalker - Post #74) on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 7:14 pm: |
I am sadden by this. I don't normally but I will say a prayer for the victims. We are frighten by the possibility of being a victim as well. Are the victims native Bonairians? I hope that doesn't offend anyone. Does anyone have the feeling that this was a planned attack or an opportunistic type occurance? If I understand the current rule of law prohibiting excessive force and using just enough force to repel your attacker; That needs to be changed! Someone needs to set a precedent. Our flight was cancelled by AJ recently I'm not as upset now as I was when the call came in.
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By Carole Baker (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #4208) on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 8:15 pm: |
I'm speechless. cb
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By Eileen Kimmett (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #6683) on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 8:17 pm: |
I am very sad reading this thread. First question, why do people have to be like this?
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By Ron Myers (BonaireTalker - Post #45) on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 9:47 pm: |
(Written by my wife the travel agent) Jake, Linda and all those others that are living in paradise under bars and a corrupt police department. I'm so sorry for this last attack. We have been bringing a group there for the last five years and have just started organizing another trip for next spring. This puts a lot of pressure on me as a travel agent as to whether I want to do this to any of the repeat people, much less the new ones interested in Bonaire. What else can we do, or can you do to get this addressed as this is the life or death of your economy!!!
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By Mike Dunn (BonaireTalker - Post #44) on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 4:03 am: |
Wow...I'm so sad and disgusted!
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By Andrea & Dave Bartlett (BonaireTalker - Post #21) on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 11:19 am: |
I am from a small rural town (pop 3500) in Texas and we have the same types of crime that everyone is so concerned about on Bonaire. This happens world wide. Unless we are going to hide in our homes and not do/go anywhere we will encounter crime. All we can do is be prudent in safety measures. Bonaire still has a lot to offer even if it is not Utopia. Andy
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By Alex & Susan Brown (BonaireTalker - Post #36) on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 11:49 am: |
I live in Sabadeco year-round. I am afraid. However, I have to say that while I am obviously horrified by the brutal attack on my neighbors, I am also horrified by the suggestions of some here that vigilantism is any kind of solution. I believe that violence is rarely the appropriate response to violence. I don't pretend to have the answers to this problem, but I think that working within the system to force the police to protect us will be far more constructive than resorting to lynchings. I don't know the victims of this crime well, but I doubt that is the type of 'justice' they have in mind either. I also suspect that the culture of fear that would undoubtedly result from our taking the law into our own hands would create a Bonaire where none of us would want to live or visit. I hope that all who read and post here will offer their support in any and all efforts made to put pressure on our officials to catch and punish the perpetrators of this crime, and to ensure our future safety. I and other Sabadeco residents very much appreciate your concern and good wishes. Thank you.
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By Carl Pflanzer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #115) on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 12:19 pm: |
I would agree that violence is not the ideal response to violence, but if two men with machetes entered your house and attacked you, would you be better protected with a weapon of your own, or a telephone? It took the police an hour to arrive for God's sake, and the woman was beaten beyond recognition.
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By Randy P (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #224) on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 12:30 pm: |
Hi Alex & Andy,
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By Alex & Susan Brown (BonaireTalker - Post #37) on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 1:14 pm: |
I was not suggesting that people do not have a right to defend themselves in their homes, although statistics show that hasn't worked very well in the US, where many more innocents are injured or killed by 'home protection' weapons than are intruders (but that's a topic for another debate). People should have that right. But it is one thing to defend oneself and quite another to hunt down the perps and 'string them up'. What we need is effective policing and prosecution, not angry citizens or visitors distributing 'justice' where they see fit. I was simply suggesting that we use our anger constructively rather than destructively.
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By Margarita Murphy (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #1) on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 1:34 pm: |
Hello all,
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By Marcus L. Barnes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #202) on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 1:37 pm: |
Good point Alex; however, the police on Bonaire aren't getting it done. These dirt bags know this and are targeting Bonaire because they see it as an easy hit - path of least resistance if you will. It still seems to me that home alarm systems, common here in the US, would help to deter this type of activity. I'm okay with staying in the resorts and villa complexes that have security measures in place but there is no way I'd rent a stand alone house on Bonaire. I've always been curious as to why these lst line precautions (i.e. burglar alarms) are not being used on stand alone houses on Bonaire. My guess is that the perps above would have been much less interested in conducting this type of unspeakable act with an alarm going crazy in the background - no guarentee of course but better odds none the less. Why the bars instead of alarms? Hang in there - it'll get better.
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By Jane Marie Garchinsky (BonaireTalker - Post #75) on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 1:41 pm: |
With all due respect, that's a wonderful theory, working within the system, trying to change the corrupt police department and all that. But when god forbid, you, a friend or a loved one are lying in hospital bed, if they are lucky enough to get there in the back of rusted out double cabin, replaying the events. I guarantee that theory will seem very thin. Write some letters, attend some rallies if that makes you feel like you're improving anything but invest in an axe handle pronto. And please don't keep it in the locked closet next to the windows that are bolted and barred. These animals are going to continue their crimes with more frequency and severity. There is no realistic deterrent for them. They enjoy the power! The culture of fear, when will it arrive? Muggings, theft, burglaries, home invasions, torture, mutilation, house sitters, guards at dive sites, bars on the windows and doors, corrupt cops..I'd say it's is alive and well.
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By Randy P (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #225) on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 2:16 pm: |
Hi Alex,
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By Carl Pflanzer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #116) on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 3:30 pm: |
My sources on the island tell me that the alarm system was not activated, and there was little money in the home at the time. Can someone confirm this?
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By jan van der List (BonaireTalker - Post #14) on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 4:07 pm: |
Today I spoke with a couple of people who should know. And yes there was no money in the house.
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By Carl Pflanzer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #117) on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 4:22 pm: |
Thank you Jan. I hope they find the scum, although I don't think the criminal justice system will prosecute to fit the crime. Very sad indeed.
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By jan van der List (BonaireTalker - Post #15) on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 4:42 pm: |
In a small community (like Bonaire)crimes are sometimes solved because there is always someone who knows who these animals are. A reward could do the trick. I remember after the killing of Mr Pleumeekers and his wife 5 years ago, they issued a reward of 10000 guilders. The police "solved" the murder days after that.
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By Jane Marie Garchinsky (BonaireTalker - Post #76) on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 4:50 pm: |
All this reference to the alarm...Big Deal! On or off what's the difference? The authorities are not responding anyway. Oh, right, maybe the noise will annoy the pigs and they'll find another target in a quieter section of town. Guess what! The perpetrators are well known! Those maggots just don't get a bright idea and act out of character pulling a stunt like this willy nilly. Anyone with any knowledge of the community knows who is capable of such a crime and who did it with reasonable certainty. The usual suspect list can't be long. If the cops won't help and if the native Bonairians won't help, YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN! Pass at your own risk and cover your ass! What is your life worth to you.
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By Cynde (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #12458) on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 5:23 pm: |
I think the problem is a very complex problem (I'm only speaking from what information that has been provided by the residents of Bonaire). I do know that there are other Antillean islands that suffer from larger crime rates and offenses, and have the same frustration. Prior to going to Sint Maarten last Spring, I spent a lot of time researching the island, lurking on talk boards, etc. Just for a perspective (and the problems they have with number of police available...i.e. the Simpson Bay PD office closes at 9PM), on this one thread there are 4 posts of crimes since July 2004, one, tourists being beaten with a baseball bat.
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By Randy P (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #226) on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 5:25 pm: |
Hi Jan,
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By Cynde (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #12459) on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 5:37 pm: |
Jan, here are 2 links with information on the Neighborhood Watch Program. We have one in our neighborhood. Randy's right. It takes involvement and commitment from the residents. We have a monthly or every 2 month meeting to report any news, information, etc. Our local police department supports it as well.
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By Linda Richter - NetTech (Moderator - Post #2021) on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 5:38 pm: |
The alarm system does not go to the police station it goes to a security company which did respond within minutes of it sounding. Unfortunately, the victims were only able to sound the alarm after the attack was over.
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By Vince DePietro (BonaireTalker - Post #55) on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 6:10 pm: |
With great sadness I see the slow cycle of escalating violence continues. With every "crime" being committed the bar is being raised one notch higher than the last "outrageous occurrence" which is barely perceptible on a day-to-day basis. I believe there is true malevolent evil in the world.
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By Greta Badstebner (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #604) on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 6:12 pm: |
Ditto on what Randy & Cynde said about the Neighborhood Watch program. It DOES work with well-functioning support from both the citizens of the community and the local police force. We have one in my community.
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By Al Schroedel (BonaireTalker - Post #46) on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 6:22 pm: |
In the continuing absence (for years) of motivated and effective law enforcement, and considering the bleak prospects of any real improvement in the forseeable future, visitors have fundamentally two choices, i.e., stop visiting, or visit and hope you won't be injured or killed. The drug culture spillover from Curacao and elsewhere, coupled with Bonaire's failure to successfully deal with crimes from petty theft to felonious assault and murder, makes coming to Bonaire an increasingly dicey proposition.
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By Cynde (BonaireTalk Deity - Post #12461) on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 6:39 pm: |
The picture of the victim is in the latest edition of the Bonaire reporter with a story. Again, PLEASE give this woman and her mate hugs and condolences from me, and that she makes a speedy physical, and mental recovery from this horrific crime.
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By seb schulherr (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1712) on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 6:39 pm: |
Two things:
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By Alex & Susan Brown (BonaireTalker - Post #38) on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 6:59 pm: |
There has been quite a bit of speculation about the details of this horrible attack and in the interest of clarifying matters we would like to share the information that we have received, both from our homeowner’s association, and from a Sabadeco resident and friend of the victims’ who is on the committee working on this situation (i.e. working with the police and the Island Council on behalf of Sabadeco). We have been given permission to do so.
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By Israel A. Sanchez (BonaireTalker - Post #75) on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 7:19 pm: |
Agree with Seb 100% about harming a Bonairian (sp?) assailant. What are the laws in this case? Do they protect the scum more than the victim? The way things are going, I would not be surprised if the criminals have kinship relations with the higher officials, who would not hesitate to arrest the victim for harming one of their "beloved family members". Let's face it, there's not much we can do from here. Like I mentioned before, we can limit ourselves to writing letters and threat with not coming to the island. We can already see what results that has produced. I believe that it would be a great wake up call for all those politicos if Bonaire was placed on the Department of Travel warnings. For those of you who still insist with the irrelevant "there's crime everywhere" You are either in denial or simply don't get it. No One in this board has mentioned any place as being "safe" 100%, and in case you have not browsed the previous reports, what outrages all visitors is not the presence of crime per se, but rather, the apathy and indifference of those who are supposed to protect their citizens. One hour to arrive to the scene of the crime? Give me a break!
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By Gary Penrose (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #9) on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 8:46 pm: |
It's interesting how rewards do tend to work and lead to arrest. I for one plan to contribute to any reward fund that has been established, or another that could be started by private citizens. I would suggest, if any of you want to do something that may make a difference, that you consider contributing as well. Rather than contribute through the prosecutor’s office, I would be willing to contribute to a private reward fund that would be administrated by someone on the island that we all can trust to be a voice for all of us. Any thoughts or ideas?
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By Ron Myers (BonaireTalker - Post #46) on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 9:07 pm: |
From the above post, and believing there is "no honor among thieves" I think increasing the award amount is a good idea. This is not vigilantism per se; just attempting to help the local police do their job. I would be more than willing to contribute to such a fund to be paid to whoever might assist in the arrest and conviction of those responsible. Please keep me posted if such a fund becomes a reality.
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By Israel A. Sanchez (BonaireTalker - Post #76) on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 9:16 pm: |
Count me in as well. That's a good idea. Coach Izzy
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By HT Heller (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #2) on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 8:18 am: |
I think that it is a pretty sad situation to have to tempt the police with a monetary reward in order for them to do their job.
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By Gary Steven (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #10) on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 8:27 am: |
Any reward would NOT be paid to any police for doing there job. It's for any private citizen that can help in the arrest and conviction.
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By Carl Pflanzer (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #118) on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 8:59 am: |
I don't know about the reward although it sounds good, but I've never heard of anyone getting one after they turn someone in.
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By HT Heller (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #3) on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 9:29 am: |
I do not know the statistics for Bonaire, but St. John USVI I believe has had only two armed assaults (neither one fatal) since 1999. Mind you, they only have a population of 4-5000 but the Islands as a whole receive 2.5 million tourists a year.
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By J.J zambrano mazzei (BonaireTalker - Post #49) on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 11:59 am: |
I´m very sad for this news, Violence must go out of Bonaire...it´s like a terror movie..Bonaire USE to be quiet,Pacific, and all this violence is new here .the crime is everywhere in the world but crime with violence ......! I saw this kind of crime in curacao but never in Bonaire. Imported Violence ? Yesterday a policeman told me "this violence is caused for drugs".....
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By Brian (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #684) on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 2:30 pm: |
We too are deeply saddened by this outrage, we wish a speedy and full recovery to the couple. Lets hope that the reward brings out the offenders and that they get suitably dealt with for a long period. Zero tolerence should be used here.
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By GMLIII (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #3) on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 3:05 pm: |
The most disturbing thing about this tragedy is that the residents were bound with SCUBA equipment. If this was a burglary, there was no reason to torture - yes, torture - these people. As they were bound, there was absolutely no reason to beat them, burn them or slash them. That was simply gratuitous violence for its own sake. Sadistic. Such violence was not needed for this burglary.
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By Meryl Virga (Supreme BonaireTalker - Post #4201) on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 6:44 pm: |
Well this is a whole different crime now....How horrible...and I am in shock at seeing the picture of that poor women.
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By arthur ginnetty (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #10) on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 11:50 pm: |
The Reward Poster is posted over on scubadiving.com
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By Susan Porter (BonaireTalker - Post #75) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 6:26 am: |
This attack is about perception. The neighborhood that has been attacked twice now is perceived as wealthy. The people that were attacked did not, in fact, have a lot of money in their house which may be why they were beaten so badly. I have held my voice until now. Please do not create more problems then we are already have by adding misinformation to the mix. Misperception can and does hurt us all.
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By Susan Porter (BonaireTalker - Post #76) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 6:37 am: |
To qualify, yes, Sabadeco is very upscale but what I am trying to do is make a point.
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By Robert Crumley (BonaireTalker - Post #41) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 12:59 pm: |
In September, for the first time ever in my many trips to Bonaire, I saw actual drug deals in the middle of the street, by a very young lady, who had just been handed the drugs from a car with curacao plates. This was in broad daylight,on Kaya Grandi in front of the Bookstore, with many people around who just ignored what was happening. A couple of the men lit up and were smoking a joint right in the middle of the street, being ignored by everyone around. If the community leaders of Bonaire continure to stick their heads in the sand and pretend that all is well, I'm afraid when they pull their heads back out, the tourist industry will be wiped out because of their indecisions and not taking care of the problems when they could have "nipped them in the bud", before things escalated.
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By George Blanchard (New BonaireTalk Poster - Post #9) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 3:22 pm: |
We are not divers but are snorkelers and long time Caribbean travelers. We first went to Bonaire in 1993 and have returned regularly. Our 10th trip will be in January. However, it is imperative that Bonaire protect its reputation as a safe place to visit. We used to visit Jamaica in the 60's but drugs and crime have taken that place off our travel list.
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By Alex & Susan Brown (BonaireTalker - Post #39) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 5:35 pm: |
We would like to clear up a little more misinformation:
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By Brigitte Kley - Coco Palm Garden (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #190) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 7:15 pm: |
Robert Crumley, why don't you (or others who saw similair actions) write what you saw to some people in power and to the Extra. All info we can give to these commisonars and the lt. governor makes them stronger against the minister of Justice on Curacao ... who is responsable that the police (and immigration and custom) is such a disgrace on Bonaire - after the last e-mail action in June/July the police was working for a few weeks .. and than they think that everybody has calmed down and they stop working again
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By C Poteet (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #233) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 7:58 pm: |
Brigeitte -
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By Marcus L. Barnes (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #203) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 8:13 pm: |
Just sent emails (again) to the addresses posted above by Brigette.
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By Brigitte Kley - Coco Palm Garden (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #191) on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 9:06 pm: |
Mr. Elhage is the comissioner of tourism
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By Glen Reem (Extraordinary BonaireTalker - Post #1885) on Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 1:55 am: |
In regard to the 'community leaders of Bonaire putting their heads in the sand', please remember that this is all about the rule of law and these leaders have no legal authority to police.
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By C Poteet (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #234) on Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 1:25 pm: |
Brigitte -
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By Brigitte Kley - Coco Palm Garden (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #196) on Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 6:15 pm: |
The Extra today published quite a number of comments from BT and some mails they received ... but the today editon is not on the web yet ...
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