I arrived earlier this week via one of my favourite countries, Colombia. In Medellin they are very proud of their $2.8 million investment in their new tower in the morgue. Unfortunately the murder rate is up so now it is at capacity (there were 911 murders as of June 1st).

I wonder how many of those 911 people would have been completely distraught if they had visited Bonaire and had their sandwich or hat stolen. Or maybe a camera or computer. I will be going back that way in a couple of weeks, so maybe I can interview the residents of the morgue and ask them. That way we will all know how to react here on Bonaire where some feel that crime is just as out of control....... possibly an epidemic (perish the thought). By the way, they do not feel crime is out of control in Medellin, only a little higher than they would like.

I know I am likely jinxing myself but if the point is made then it will be worth it. I have never had anything stolen out of my truck, including my Ipod which was always plugged into the lighter, phone, shoes, sunglasses, Nike gym shirts ($60/each) and shorts, can of OFF, gogles, cigarrettes, lighters, or any of my diving equipment which is always left in the back of the truck when shopping, at the gym between dives........ or at night when I am just too lazy to take it out and rinse it. In fact at the end of my last trip over Christmas I found the spare key in the glove box...... it had been there the whole trip.

The only reason I am bringing any of this up is that we pulled in beside an American couple and their teenage son and they were asking us about thefts from vehicles. I found it disturbing that people would even have that on their minds in the first place and feel the real criminals are the tourists who over-react and post hysterical comments about very petty (and quite pathetic) "crime". Nobody should be expected to be overjoyed at having something stolen, however the over-reaction and attention given to it on these boards is laughable.

My last exam was just returned........ so my workday is done and I have no more time to kill tonight.

I think we should buy Micheal Gaynor a cape and paint a couple of stripes on his truck. He can be Bonaire's version of a super crime fighter. I just hope the cape doesn't collect too much dust while he waits around for some crime to fight.

We have never had anything swiped either. I witnessed a Brite get spilled once. Is that a crime or is it just a shame. We have been lucky. I do think that there is a crime element on Bonaire that needs to be stopped. The brazen thefts from people while they sleep is scary stuff.

I've only been to Bonaire once - for a fabulous week last year. Nothing was stolen from our truck - but that could be because there was nothing left in it to steal.
The several piles of broken glass we saw at various sites around the island bear testament to the existence of regular opportunistic crime. (If breaking a car window isn't criminal damage, please tell me what is.
Some people do get very wound up about the situation (probably the people who have been robbed - so justifiably maybe). Others seem to excuse the activity or brush it under the carpet.
The truth, as usual, probably lies somewhere in between, but there's no doubt the problem exists and, to my mind, no doubt that the Bonaire authorities could easily reduce it if they put their minds to it.

Shall I list everything that happened during my trip? It is sickening when someone dismisses what is happening. Tires stolen, batteries stolen, one entire car stolen from a resort parking lot, 7 houses broken into, shall I continue? Stop trying to down play what is happening. Waking up in the middle of the night with a man sitting in your room is frightening. Hysterical comments? Stop insulting the victims! People are using flood lights and barbed wire in addition to bars on their windows. Stop blaming the tourists.

Fid

While I agree that people must put things into perspective, it is a sorry state of affairs when a country allows itself to be plunged into such lawlessness that the population except such a high murder rate.

There was obviously a time when only low key crime existed. Maybe in those days, people dismissed that too. While Bonaire is still safe with little in the way of violent crime, how long do you think it will be before it is comparable with Curacao or Sint Maarten where car jacking and muggings are commonplace? Is it better to ignore the petty crime in the hope that it won't escalate into something more serious or is it better to address the problem & nip it in the bud?

As long as there are people, there will be crime. All that the law abiding can hope for is that there are systems in place to protect them.

Many of the dive sites on Bonaire are littered with broken glass where someone smashed a window to steal something. No, that's not as bad as being murdered, and if someone gave me the choice, I would choose that they break the window in my truck. However, to me, that does not mean theft is not a problem.

And people like Fid who leave things like
iPods and phones in their cars only contribute
to the problem by providing intermittent
rewards to the criminals. They can always
count on the dumba$$es who think "it can
never happen to them". Keep living in
your world of delusion.

Fid, i already welcomed you back to the island personally and now welcome back to the board..We need to talk my friend.

I think we should have a contest for naming our newly nominated super hero! Since my humor tends to ruffle feathers sometimes, I'll let someone else go first.

e.

just in case some of you missed the new posting policies are in effect today: Please read them ..thanks

http://www.oldbonairetalk.com/newsgroup/messages/25/152184.html?1278000044

Chibi-Chibi Bang-Bang
(in honor of the resident sugar bird):

http://www.bonairenet.com/chibichibi/images/chibifade.jpg

Boasting a yellow leotard,
black cape, prominent white
eye-stripe/eye-shaddow
and thigh-high black
leather boots.

The Chibi-Chibi costume could
also be put to good use for
midnight-showings of the
Rocky Horror Picture Show -
while dancing the Time Warp.
And worn by the Grand Marshal
of the Bonaire Gay Pride Parade.

Ok, this thread just took a turn that was not intended. Perhaps Michael is just fine the way he is.

e.

We have never had any instances of theft in our 6 trips to Bonaire, however we were there last week and saw multiple dive sites with broken glass--particularly Andrea I. We counted 6 piles of broken glass which we could only assume were windows from vehicles. Our bags in our truck were sorted thru at Bari Reef......will that stop us from going back? NO. Yes, the petty crime is rampant on the island but following a few simple rules eliminates your risk. I wouldn't leave my valuables in my car in the U.S. either!

I really don't understand why anyone would go to a site like Andrea and lock the truck & close the windows. So much is, and has been written about proper protocol at dive sites on Bonaire all over the internet. Really this isn't brain surgery. A locked truck with windows rolled up equates in the fragile eggshell minds of the perps to conclude "hmm there must be valuables & a lot of cash inside".

I must have completely misunderstood the post...surely informing people not to leave any valuable is the car and to leave the windows down is not only the most responsible thing for us to do, but also actually helps reduce crime by removing the opportunity....surely no one is suggesting that we shouldn't be doing such..must have misunderstood the intent of the post...

"the real criminals are the tourists who over-react and post hysterical comments about very petty (and quite pathetic) "crime"

Wow.

My vote would be with Thomas Mann who said, "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil."

So, Bonaire has little crime compared to Medellin, Colombia? Maybe they should put that on the tourist brochures.

The crime on the island is a problem but the apathy and indifference of its residents, property owners and those who publicly deny and minimize the issue, coupled with the increasing vilification of those who do speak out in opposition, is truly sad.

ok...... i surely didn't intend to stir up this huge hornet's nest when i posted about getting things stolen from our truck while diving. anyone who knows anything about bonaire knows what to do about the going-diving-and-leaving-stuff-in-the-truck thing, and if you're new to bonaire, there's no shortage of experienced folks to warn you. i simply wanted to let people know of our experience, no different from 16 years ago, and to hopefully keep this from happening to others. again. that's all. nothing else. the end.

and to the guy who said "the real criminals are the tourists who over-react and post hysterical comments about very petty (and quite pathetic) "crime"....... seriously??? seriously???

Crime is part of the local economy on Bonaire . Petty theft out of vehicles does not deter me , In room burglars is a whole different can of worms .

So Bonaire is safer than Columbia , great , Columbia is safer than Kandahar , Makes me feel way better if I should be robbed while on vacation .

[but the apathy and indifference of its residents, property owners and those who publicly deny and minimize the issue, coupled with the increasing vilification of those who do speak out in opposition, is truly sad.]

JD.. suffice it to say, (purely IMHO) you are extremely misinformed to make such an obnoxious statement. To say there is "indifference of it's residents, property owners" speaks volumes to me at least, as to how much you really know about Bonaire. My advice sir is to spend 6 months on the island and talk to the residents and property owners. Only then, (again IMHO) will you learn first hand how fallacious your conclusions are.

Well, I have to agree with Vince.
We have a very good Dutch friend on Bonaire who is a member of the police force (he is a great resource for the novel I'm writing). We get together with him and his family multiple times on each trip, and for whatever reason, the conversation of crime always comes up.

I can tell you that he is animate about the desire of the police to stop the petty theft. The major problem seems to be a sheer lack of resources and limited number of officers.

Having said that, I will admit to having had a few things stolen while on the island. Mostly it was t-shirts and things of little consequence that were left in the vehicle. If you add in the old pair of sneakers that were stolen at Nukove one year (I was going to throw them away after that trip anyway), I would imagine the grand total of my "lost" items might run to $50..... not bad for 15 trips.

I find it hard to believe that any of the residents, officials, business owners, or anyone else, feels indifferent to the crime. No one would.... except maybe the criminals.

People like Fid just encourage crime by saying it's nothing to worry about unless there is blood and hospital stay involved. A crime is a crime is a crime.

"you are extremely misinformed to make such an obnoxious statement. To say there is "indifference of it's residents, property owners" speaks volumes to me at least, as to how much you really know about Bonaire. My advice sir is to spend 6 months on the island and talk to the residents and property owners. Only then, (again IMHO) will you learn first hand how fallacious your conclusions are."

I suppose I should have said indifference of SOME of its residents, property owners, etc. My apologies for painting wish such a broad brush.

If I am misinformed and ignorant of the situation on Bonaire, then please correct me with some facts (not anecdotes, slogans, insults or lawn chair jokes). I have tried to research this topic and what I have read has lead me to my beliefs that there is a very real social problem on the island. Of course I know that simply by describing it as a "real problem," I lose all credibility with many here.

I would love to supplement what I have read and heard by speaking to the residents, but between the defensiveness and hostility one encounters ('the real criminals are the tourists who complain') private neighborhood security forums with content not to be disclosed to tourists, and the general hostility at any suggestion that perhaps the emperor is wearing no clothes, I don't think this will be possible. Besides, the only residents I encounter are those who want me to come to the island as a tourist. Why are they more reliable than my fellow travelers?

All it takes is for one visitor to the island to mention they were the victim of crime and the wagons circle, and we get the usual:

"Surely no sane person would leave valuables in their vehicle. If you followed the 'rules' this would not have happened."

"Crime is everywhere"

"Crime is worse elsewhere"

"I had something stolen from my rental car in Florida"

"Well if you were burglarized you must have failed to lock your doors and you should not bring such valuables on a dive trip anyway."

"I have been to Bonaire more than you so I know what I am talking about and you don't."

Etc., etc.

One need merely question the security of rental properties, or challenge the sacred Sunbelt Properties and all heck breaks loose.

Ask for the names of properties that get burglarized the most and it is like the old Japanese Three Wise Monkeys (hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil).

I can't afford to go to Bonaire (or anywhere else) for 6 months. But I don't think it would matter. My attitudes towards crime and apathy would not change. Maybe I would learn that these burglaries are not happening all that much and the thefts from vehicles are less common than they seem, or that the police and the residents are doing all they can to combat the problem. Maybe.

I doubt it. If these things were true, we would see the evidence published all over the place. As I have offered before, if someone wants to put some real information out there about crime on Bonaire (you know, stats, numbers, burglary rate, convictions, prison sentences, recidivism rates, that kind of thing) I would read it and factor it into my thinking.

Prove me wrong (please!)and I will gladly change my statements and admit my mistakes and seek forgiveness for the error of my ways.

BTW, I was visiting the board again because I have recently completed a dive trip and am planning the next one. I was wondering if it might be time to go to Bonaire again when I found this thread. Not feeling all that welcome.

Vince, I have read enough of your posts to know you are an intelligent and thoughtful man. While I may lack much knowledge of the island, I think you, on the other hand, are too emotionally close to it to be able see clearly the extent of the problem.

I am sorry if I have offended you personally.

JD..Really no offense taken (I do read a lot of obnoxious things on the internet). You are most assuredly entitled to your opinions and beliefs. Furthermore I doubt I could get you to change your mind since I suspect the bulk of your knowledge on this subject is derived from reading accounts on internet chat sites, and several weekly dive visits to the island.

Really (again IMHO) absolutely no substitute for first hand knowledge, information and experience. So be guided accordingly. But I do suspect you don't know the real Bonaire.

It seems like the truth about crime in Bonaire may lie somewhere in the middle of these posts. While I am not a resident (yet), I have made a number of trips to Bonaire over the past 15 years or so.

My own personal experience is this ... I have made at least 150+ dives on Bonaire all over the island, in the park, north of BOPEC, unmarked sites on the windward side, etc. Not once in any of these dives has my rental car or the apartment or condo where I stay been broken into (to my knowledge). Mostly we stay at Bonaire Oceanfront, but have stayed at Sand Dollar, Dive Inn and the Plaza as well.

Like others here, I have seen the broken window glass at the dive sites, but have also taken care to follow "the rules". Don't lock the car, don't leave valuables, etc. I have, on occasion, hidden my camera away from the car if I didn't want to dive with it.

Having said all of that, my only contact with the crime on Bonaire was about 8-9 years ago at the old Dive Inn (when Babs ran it). One Sunday afternoon, the young guys were squealing tires and racing down the boulevard along the sea (forgot the name) from north of South Pier to the Divi casino parking lot. As many of you know, there's a public beach across from the Dive Inn and there were many families with kids. After tolerating the screeching tires and racing for a while, I waited for one of them to come again and walked to the middle of the street, forcing him to stop. When he did, I told him that there were kids around and to take the racing/screeching elsewhere. As it turns out, they did leave the area. Maybe I was just lucky.

A couple hours later, a staff member from the Divi walked over and told me he had witnessed the scene. He cautioned me that the outcome might not have been so good, because there were gangs on the island.

So, in this sense, you could argue that I would have brought it on myself.

We will be back for yet another trip to BON in September and will be looking for a place to purchase to live in the future in retirement. I am hopeful that the transition to the Dutch government will bring economic opportunity to some of the Bonairean youth who might otherwise find other ways to occupy themselves.

I have difficulty understanding the points being made by people here who say that people like me encourage crime. Our privileged existence and greed encourages crime. I guess I just don't really care that much if someone takes it upon themselves to steal my ipod, cheap cell phone, camera or any of my dive equipment. I will certainly not be thrilled about it, however I will also not be devastated either. If they really need it that badly then they can have at it. I do not travel with everything that I own so I cannot ever have everything stolen. The information on my computer is valuable to me, so I back it up using an offsite service provider. The computer itself is just that...... a computer.

Nancy, You are correct. A crime is a crime is a crime, however some crimes are just not worthy of a whole lot of attention. That is not to say they are not worthy of any attention at all either, just not attention with all the drama. A crime resulting in a hospital visit or stay is something worthy of attention, an ipod, phone, camera, sandwich, lunchbox, T-shirt or hat is not. I do not mind adjusting to minimize the impacts of crime, however not visiting Bonaire or running back and forth between the rental house because I do not want to leave my dirty gym cloths in the truck or my dive equipment in the back while I go shopping or to the gym is just not something worthy of the effort. It would totally defeat the purpose of coming to Bonaire and enjoying the laid back atmosphere where you can stop off for a dive on the way home from the store, gym, court or wherever. I am not willing to adjust my life to the extent where I am too paranoid to leave a guilder or an ipod in my truck.

Loyd, Bonaire is safer than anywhere, including Canada and the USA. I had my cell phone stolen in barrio Santa Fe in Bogota. My friends tracked down the street urchin and beat him up over it. I was furious at them and tracked the guy down and gave him the phone (without the SIM card). I appreciated my friends looking out for me, but no one deserves to get beat up over stealing a cell phone. I was angry for a couple of hours at losing the phone......... but it was a phone not the Hope Diamond. If you are still around to feel anything about being robbed then it was really not that bad of an experience. It is the people who no longer have a complete head or a gaping hole in their chest that have become victims of crime worthy of all the drama and indepth coverage. Mary-lou's sandwich or my ipod (if it should ever get stolen) are not even worthy of taking the time to post about it.

Jeanine, I don't know what brings on such a barrage of chaos and mayhem for you but maybe there are some other underlying problems which are contributing to your particular situation. Are we talking about the same island?

Scubachef, I do not take offence to you expressing your opinions by using some colourful descriptors of me (the moderators are just doing their due diligence). According to your definition I am a DA because I have NOT been robbed. Your statement speaks for itself. "It" has happened in the past and will most likely happen to me in the future. I vacation in some countries with marginal reputations and run with a crowd that makes "it" all the more likely to happen. That being said I live and enjoy life and will never allow petty crime to impact on that.

Hillary, I know where you are coming from but I stand by my comments "the real criminals are the tourists who over-react and post hysterical comments about very petty (and quite pathetic) "crime"....... seriously??? seriously???........... yes seriously.

My point was that I do not feel that Bonaire crime is crime worthy of the attention it gets here. The island of Bonaire does not deserve the overblown negative reputation it is getting on these boards. In my original post I wrote why it irked me in the first place. Here were some regular everyday Americans who I met in passing at a dive site and the topic of crime came up when they sought some reassurance that they were doing the right thing (leaving the windows down etc). It was very disheartening to think that that was on their minds when they should have only been thinking about the great dive ahead of them.

Fid...I just spent 6 weeks there, got home last Sunday. Yes we are talking about the same island. I left off a lot of stuff that happened while I was there. The petty crime is still happening, but another form of crime is escalating.

There is a big difference in what you see in one or two weeks, compared to staying there for an extended stay in a neighborhood. I spoke with my neighbors and many others who live on the island. I heard alarms go off daily. I was told by more than one person that their dogs were killed by burglars. A few others believed their dogs were given treats to distract them. It is really sad what is happening.

If you want a full litany of everything that I know which happened while I was there this trip, send me a PM. I will be happy to list it all for you.

The entire thing is sickening and I really feel for the good honest people who live there.

Fid,you must have much greater disposable wealth than I do.
I take great offense when ANYONE steals from me.
I worked for whatever I have.
"Thief" should not be a job description.
Feel free to to send me your Ipod etc, saving me from spending the $$ I have earned.
PM me for a mailing address.

Crime strikes again on BT!!!

A few days of pleasant and quiet talk and someone throws a hook in the water. With the hoped for result: it's like throwing grasshopppers into a trout pool.

Glen...the real fireworks appear to be over on the Drunk Driving thread.

Jeanine,

TKS. Missed that. I can only watch one pool at a time. :–)

Grunt, If you were to come across my truck and there was an ipod and a stack of cash sitting on the front seat, I already know that you would not even for a second think of taking it. And neither would the other 99.5% of the population. I would not call what I have wealth of any kind, much less disposable. However in comparison to the majority of the global population we all are very wealthy. We do not go without food or water on a regular basis. We are not children trying to raise our brothers and sisters because our parents have abandoned us or just plain old died from disease or civil violence. Let me know when they put you away in a old folks home and I will send you my crappy ipod.

Jeanine, if people are willing to kill a dog then the next step may very well be people. If I were in your shoes (I am not being sarcastic or dismissive towards your experiences) I would seek out a safer place. How can you possibly enjoy your vacation when you are in fear. Bad experiences can sour any potential paradise and if I ever experienced what you experienced then I would be thinking of alternatives. BTW, the only alarms I ever hear are when I set off our own by accident.

I guess to some of you Bonaire is a crime ridden hell-hole with mayhem and misery just around the corner. To me it is a paradise where I will never lose anything of importance and only enjoy what life has to offer. It is an island where anyone can walk at any time of the day or night without fear of being kidnaped, physically attacked or robbed at gun or knife-point. That is not to say it will never happen, it is just so unlikely that it is not worth consideration.

Fid,
You wrote,"It is an Island where anyone can walk at any time of the day or night without fear of being kidnapped,physically attacked or robbed..." I say, tell that to the family of Marlis Elizabeth van der Kouwe.
I've been practicing criminal law for 23 years...with the last 10 being exclusively murder defense.And I can tell you that almost every murderer didn't commit murder as his or her first crime...they tend to start with "small" crimes/anitsocial acts and escalate. That's what you are missing here,Fid.
And your, "the real criminals are the over-reacting tourists comment" is the epitome of ignorance and insensitivity. But, I've got to hand it to you, Bonaire is probably safer than Columbia.(depending on where you are in each place)
I've never been a crime victim on Bonaire.I don't feel that it is so crime ridden that I shouldn't visit--but I am rubbed the wrong way by the idea that my vehicle will be tossed so that I should leave the windows down and nothing of any value inside. Most places I dive don't have that kind of "reversed rules" kind of thinking. I am also alarmed by the number of reported home invasions-these are the the precursers to murder rape and battery.So,for me its mostly boat dives and we choose our accom. very carefully-and there are places on Bonaire that we won't walk at night.
We can never completely get rid of crime. But we can fight to minimize it--something that the Bonaire authorities don't seem to be making a priority.Corruption,incompetence,lack of resources? Or in what combination all three?
(I have no financial interest in the perception of the level of crime on Bonaire...those who disagree with my point of view ,please state your financial interest if you have one.)

I've been trying to resist adding my two pennyworth, but for what it's worth.....
Surely the fundamental issue here is one of right and wrong? I know there are pragmatic steps to take to avoid being robbed - but why should we need to be told to leave nothing in trucks and leave trucks open? It shouldn't be necessary.
OK, here's my idea. In my country, hundreds of years ago, we had things called stocks and pillories. These were really instruments of public humiliation, which perpetrators of petty crime were locked into for a given period. Most villages had one.

The reasons I think this is a good idea for Bonaire's petty criminals are:
1. It's cheap.
2. Bonaire is a relatively small community, so the mainly decent and law-abiding population would know who is letting them down.
3. The extent of public humiliation should act as a real deterrent.
4. Because of 3, the police would hopefully only have to catch a few thieves to largely stop the thieving. (At least, that's what I'd hope.)

Barbaric? It probably was in mediaeval times, when those in the stocks had things thrown at them, and probably worse, but it would be easy to police to ensure that no harm came to the crims - the humiliation should be punishment enough. And what's wrong with actions having consequences?

lol Nick I like your thinking but you know as well as I do that does not fly in modern times. Maybe ordering them to hold a sign stating they stole would be a more likely option to that idea.

I have to say I love Bonaire and will return but between crime and most importantly the deteriorating reefs Bonaire may become a "once upon a time a divers paradise".

sadly, most of the crime merchandise goes somewhere, sounds like someone is on the take. We've been several times and are going back in Dec. It is scary to leave laptop and camera/housing in room, Sad. Does it all end up on ebay. We had our truck ran sacked when all the windows were opened and nothing in it.... As small as this island is, IMHO, "they" officials, could do more and wipe it out. Tourism is their main business, "they" need to work on this one!!!

Well, we leave our stuff on tables in our room, and on occasion on the table outside (camera, laptop). Which, by times happens at home too. Everything's insured. Never had a worry or problem/issue. Funny, cause I do go around at night checking locks and placing dowels (I bring them with) in the windows and sliding door. Stuff is just that,stuff, whereas life is precious.

Guess we stay at a great place.

I'm in no way diminishing the crime concerns, they are real, just grateful for the diligence of our resort of choice. And, I do understand a 1 wk stay at a resort is very different than an extended private property stay. Never had a shore diving truck issue, but, never left anything in it either.

I don't want to get beaten up over this, just our experiences since '92.

I think this had to be said, as a short term holiday traveler.

Brenda...thanks for posting that you bring dowels and insure your stuff. That is the type of honest information travelers need that come to Bonaire.

Fid...sorry buddy, but I am not going away. Bonaire is safer than other places I have traveled. However, I'm not going to Bonaire with blinders on. I listen to people and try to learn from what is happening to them so that I can better prepare myself. I will continue to post whenever anyone attacks others about the crime issue. I will also continue to post whenever someone tries to mislead people into believing that petty theft is the only problem on the island. (Unless of course the moderators disable my account - then I won't be able to post. )

The worst crime perpetrated against travelers is misinformation! If you go some where, you need to have the facts.

I also want to thank all of you who have sent me private messages about what has happened to you while on Bonaire. I respect your decision not to make it public and take a thrashing on the board. However, I encourage you to post so that others can learn from what has happened to you.

alright, here are my current concerns:

1) that since i interrupted the thieves in the act of stealing my stuff, the potential for the situation turning violent was there. and scary. and invasive. and not something i want to deal with during my one little tiny week of vacation meant to help me get away from all the yucky stuff at home. and LET ME REITERATE: MY STUFF, MINE & I DON'T WANT IT STOLEN!!! NO MATTER HOW VALUABLE OR INVALUABLE, MY STUFF!!! and by the way, prescription sunglasses run around $450, not exactly a stinky old pair of nikes.

2) thank you, nick, for mentioning the ridiculous idea of making things more accessible to the criminals (& that's what they are, not the divers who are coming to bonaire to vacation & support bonaire's economy, who abide by bonaire's laws and try very hard to be good little tourists). i find the placid, passive reactions that divers have had for YEARS about leaving their vehicles open, blah, blah, blah simply astounding. with all the money poured into this tiny place for so long, one would think that there would be something done about this. SOMETHING. not just accept the status quo. because it's not acceptable. we, as the diving community, are ready to unite against that little lionfish, but we cannot raise a collective voice against being victimized year after year???

and lastly, 3) how can one as a new member of bt expect to post anything that's already been covered somewhere in past archived posts without having his/her head handed to him/her? how are we supposed to know what's in fashion & what's taboo? i just posted a little note about what happened to me on my trip (what i thought was the definition of a trip report) & look what's spun off... somehow i feel like the bad guy. not right.

Hillary, you are very far from being the bad guy here. Crime has always been a "hot topic" here on BT.
A post about crime brings out the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.

Hang in there, it gets better.

Hillary -- I share your views (and I suspect many others here do as well). It's a slippery slope from accepting the "minor" thefts to more aggressive and harmful crimes.

June 16th, person I met while on-island, from Barcelona, Spain, walking home from Little Havana after a night of drink....two hooded males jump out of their truck, hit her with a stick on the shoulder/head area and take her purse. My wife and I met her at the police station while she filed her report. She gave police the plate number of the vehicle!
I was heading to the station to file my report of half a tank of gas being siphoned from my rental, while parked at my hotel lot.
Thank god, they hit her shoulder, not her head with that stick.
By the way, she couldn't care less about the camera/money that was taken, she was thanking god she was alive.

That should make Fid happy that the lady wasn't upset about her camera, money and purse.

http://www.perlaboneriano.com/

Quote from the web page above.

Did you know that Bonaire has been chosen by Forbes magazine as World's Ultra Safe Destination???
Click here to view the article.

I couldn't find the article on safe destinations, but I did find one that claims there are stretches of pink sand beach that go on forever. LOL! That's a joke!

http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/09/travel-secluded-beaches-forbeslife-cz_pl_1209travel.html

Jeanine - I thought you were joking. Who the heck wrote that???

I sure hope they found your half tank of gas Rich. The trauma and inhumanity of it all. You actually went to the police station to report it? Nothing good on TV that night? According to some here you may have helped to stop a future serial killer, however I really have my doubts about that.

Hooded thugs beating on a woman for her purse and camera is cowardly and disgusting to say the least. I hope they were able to track them down with the license plate number and get her some justice.

I would never advocate that anyone accept theft or crime of any kind, however I do have to question what people are willing to call crime. In the purest translation, any theft is a crime........ agreed. However not every theft is a crime worthy of pursuing. I agree that we should not have to lock up our valuables or leave trucks unlocked, but that is just a fact of life that will never go away no matter how many police, cameras or vigilantes are out there.

It is not practical to arrest and incarcerate petty theives. The system cannot handle it and we are not willing to pay for it. We would end up with a police state and would likely be branded criminals ourselves. Should the police arrest everyone who speeds, jay-walks or doesn't use their signals when turning? Those are also crimes which can have deadly consequences and which some feel are worthy of jail time.

I am not totally convinced of the slippery slope arguement when it comes to all crimes. It is an alarmist reaction that is based in hysterical panic and fear and not facts. One day junior is stealing someones hat and the next he is just chopping off the whole head? Not likely.

As for the miles of pink sand.......... maybe the petty thieves stole that too. Jeanine we need you on the island to investigate it and do not want to see you leave (not that you were going anywhere!!!). My point was that if crime and chaos are having that big of an impact on you then how can you possibly enjoy being here?

I apologize if this thread went off track. My intent was to point out that crime needs to be put into perspective and not to attack the victims or mock or belittle people who have experienced it. That being said, it is difficult not to be sarcastic about some of the overly dramatic posts about crime which is ridiculously petty.

dear fid,

you need to have your head examined.

Where is Ken Lee when we need him?

First trip to Bonaire, many to the Caribbean...during the early to mid 1990's in Central Florida, USA, the local news was limited to housefires and traffic accidents. Over the years it has increased to murder-suicides, drive by shootings and crimes against women and children. Now local news has plenty to report. In certain areas gunshots can be heard on weekend nights. A police helicopter hovers with a spotlight over certain neighbors. No one finds out what happens in the employee parking lots at Disney World because Disney keeps a lid on that. When the murder rate hit a record breaking 35 in the first quarter one year the police stepped up and put an end to it. The most common crime is unlocked car doors with stuff inside, usually visible. But, I don't consider my area 'high crime'. My wife's jeep was broken into (with security present), but her insurance covered everything. My compact, older pickup truck was stolen from a fenced in lot by a repeat offender, but recovered by police.
Why am I saying this?
Crime is part of a free society.
Help the police when you can, use modern technology to deter crime.

back in the day pink beach was a gorgeous PINK sand beach that went on forever ... think it was Lenny that took care of that ....

Hey Gary , welcome to BT and thanks for the post . As far as helping police on Bonaire , you can't help those who don't help themselves .

I love Bonaire. I have no fear of crime there. But, the arrogant, rude nature of some who post on this site gives Bonaire a bad name. There are some posters here that sit like a flock of vultures waiting for someone to post something they don't like. I have been following Bonaire talk for 5 years now, own a condo on the island, and have been to Bonaire many times. I have met some very nice people there, and some who act like they own the island. I don't like how some do business there, and I don't like the "know it all" groups of very unfriendly people that run condo associations. If I had read some of the posts prior to my first trip to Bonaire I would have thought twice about going. Some of you should think before you post and try acting in a manner worthy of the beauty of Bonaire.

Hi folks,

We are leaving for Bonaire in 6 days. I don't bring many things with me like iPhones and computers, etc. I go to Bonaire to get away from them.

As for crime... I live in Chicago... I'm not a victim here, and I've not experienced any victimization on Bonaire.

- Here, I don't leave anything in my car I am not ready to loose, I act the same way on Bonaire.
- Here, everything is insured, I act the same way on Bonaire.
- Here, I don't leave things out to tempt people, I act the same way on Bonaire.
- Here, I don't carry a lot of cash with me, I act the same way on Bonaire.
- Here, I feel perfectly safe and don't have any real problems, same on Bonaire.

Are there issues on Bonaire, absolutely. I prefer not to provide opportunities to be victimized. It's my responsibility to understand the environment and practice some due diligence. Does it excuse the thief? Absolutely not. Should the authorities do more? Absolutely. But anyone on this board who doesn't take some precaution, is basically accepting the role of victim.

I will be on Bonaire in 6 days... Woo! Hoo! And hopefully many many many many many more time...

- In Chicago, no one can be trusted with gun ownership, much like Bonaire.

I had a friend who lived in Hyde Park who had her
basement apartment broken into twice.
After the second time, a cop taking the report
said, "If I were you, I'd get a gun."
Even in Chicago, the land of outlawed guns,
you still have the right to defend yourself
INSIDE your dwelling - unlike Bonaire.

When talking about crime on Bonaire, we should remember two things:

1. After integration with Holland on 10/10/10, crime should decrease.

2. Without in any way meaning to criticize anyone who posts on this thread, let's remember that a lot of talk about crime has to be hurting tourism, which is by far Bonaire's biggest industry.

So maybe we should cool it.

I don't think it is the initial posting that causes the most problem, it's the ensuing debate that usually follows that seems to blow away a proper perspective..I still think it's prudent on our part to spread the word via this board to the most basic rule of no valuables, doors unlocked and windows down..I mentioned this to some divers parked next to us last year at Weber's Joy, and they seemed offended that I offered the suggestion, but oh well, was just trying to help like I think most of the initial post do, but I do agree with Robert in that maybe we should not pursue the thread once the posting is on the board

I absolutely DISAGREE. If Bonaire values its tourism,
those with a stake in it should make every effort
to address crime issues. And I, as a "tourist",
have every right to apply pressure to make it so.
Sorry, but those with a vested interest
cannot MUZZLE discussion of legitimate issues
just because it might impact their wallet.
This isn't the f'n Chamber of Commerce site!
I say inform the public, and caveat emptor!

Geoff -- thanks very much for a great email with great perspective on use of common sense wherever you are (Chicago, Bonaire or in my case Cleveland).

If we all use our heads just a little, we can significantly lessen the opportunity for those preying on tourists to victimize us.

Thanks for great perspective.

The island needs a wake up call .
If the lack of police response to tourists being violated slows tourism down , let it be .

I am insulted by the posters who tell me to chill because it is safer than Kabul or wherever .

I had one dealing with the police to try and recover some stolen goods for a friend . Although they were notified their goods were recovered , after a two hour run around at the Police Department we left without the goods , seems they never existed according to the detective .

I totally left with the feeling the Police just do not care .

The crime issue would not stop me from returning , after all there is very little violent crime and that is the only true deterrent for myself .
I just feel the apathy towards it is stupid , lets bury our heads in the sand and let them loot my belongings .

They know who the criminals are but do not care . Status quo except the Internet has exposed it for what it is .

My opinion is that the government and police view petty crime as an important part of the local economy , if they were not stealing from tourists they would be stealing from locals . There is no will to curb crime on Bonaire ... except by tourists and hotel owners .

I am leaving after two weeks. We never took our fins, masks, weights, handful of guilders, or tanks out of the truck (inside and in the back) for two weeks and nothing was touched. We our camera, flashlight and all other gear that was not in the truck on the deck......... A big fat nada. The same as all the other times we have been there. We go to Bonaire several times a year so please do not bother to say we are just lucky or as Hillary put it "need your head examined". Being the mother of twins I would expect more from Hillary....... but oh well.

So someone please tell me where all this alleged rampant crime is occuring? I did bump into someones sunhat....... I certainly hope the old biddy didn't think I was trying to steal it.

Again we are beating a dead horse.. can't we all agree to just disagree on this subject??

Fid, you need to share when and where
you'll be on island next time, so the
thieves can busy themselves with your
stuff that you're so cavalier about.
Hopefully you'll take one for the team.
It must be awesome to be bulletproof.
Thanks Fid, you are my hero.

Because of all this crime talk, I'm not going back to Bon till Jan.

Fid: "So someone please tell me where all this alleged rampant crime is occur(r)ing?"

Oh ye of short attention span:
http://www.oldbonairetalk.com/newsgroup/messages/1022/428791.html
Does that ring any bells?

But, yeah, Bonaire is still safer than Ciudad Juarez.
They should put that on a T-shirt!

Don't we have a dedicated Bonaire Crime area in Bonaire FAQ now?

e.

Yeah, one catch-all post basically saying
don't leave anything in your car; not a
comprehensive collection of the many many
reports of crime that individuals have made.
Those are buried away.

It doesn't even have the capacity to allow
posting or updates. Otherwise, it could be
a place to post links to those useful crime
reports.

But no - just don't lock your car doors,
and maybe make a police report (that
no one will ever get to see).

(Message edited by scubachef on July 12, 2010)

(Message edited by scubachef on July 12, 2010)

ScubaChef could you please put a little more information in your profile Please. a REAL name would be nice....I am not the only person wondering....

The Search engine at the bottom of the page is open to all to search what they want.. there is no need to put links into the FAQ thread about crime...... end of story.

Why do you need more information?
I dive, I visit Bonaire, I find the
site useful, and I contribute when
I can. If someone needs to contact
me, they can send me an e-mail/PM.
Other than that, it has no bearing
on the validity of my posts/opinions.
If you're looking for a date, I'm
already taken. kthanksbye

I to wish it was required that a person have more of a profile. It would add some amount of credibility to more then a few posters on this board who have so much to say. My truck has been gone through only once, at Red Slave, in over 120 days spent on Bonaire in the last three years. I am thankful that violent crime against anyone, local or tourist in low on Bonaire, unlike here in NJ. Patrick

I have to caution anyone about putting too much information in their profile. All it takes is for one person to attack you in a vicious manner and your life could go spiraling out of control. There are people who have jobs that require a "positive" public association. When someone drunk posts, or just meanly attacks people in this position, it could ruin their career. I personally wish I would have never used my real identity on this board because I am having to deal with this situation right now. Many people do not think when they post or simply don't care how much they hurt others. In any case, if I had it to do over again, I would not have registered with my true identity. The down side...I wouldn't have gotten to meet wonderful people like YucatanPat. The upside...I wouldn't be fearing losing my career. Whereas I value the friendships I have made through BT, especially since there are some truly wonderful people on here, these friendships don't pay the bills.

Jeanine, WHAAAAAAAAAT? I assume you've talked to the Mods about this???

I've stayed off of this thread, beyond invoking Ken Lee, to avoid a nosebleed. But to your post, i can only say, WHAAAAAAT???

Yes Barbara and the mods were wonderful in assisting me.

Good. I'm officially staying out of it, then. Got enough going on in the real world without begging trouble online...

Fun times for sure Jeanine, wish we were there now! I would hope your situation is few and far between on BT. All I would ask is perhaps the mods might consider making it mandatory for a first name, city, state, province and do you own property or a business on Bonaire to be included in the profile. That would give us all a better sense of a persons perspective. Patrick

It's something that we hope to change soon Patrick. Not a easy thing to do.

Understood Jerry, thanks. Someone also pointed me to a Bonaire crime thread over on Scubaboard. I don't go on that site much. WOW, glad the BT mods don't let things here get that nasty, stupid and quite frankly petty.

(Message edited by yucatanpat on July 12, 2010)

we try Pat... but then again we sometimes get the over flow..........................

Jeanine, I am sorry to hear that you have run into such problems over information in your profile. All you have to do is type in your name in google and your BT profile will pop up, so I can really relate to your concerns.

Less is better. I don't mind using my name however I do not see the need to post any other information.

Scubachef, It really is awsome being bullet proof. There is no need to post where I will be staying since all anyone has to do is look in the truck.

Unfortunately too many people victimize themselves by living in fear of the very small minority of theives on Bonaire. I value quality of life over all else and my time spent on Bonaire is ultra relaxing and free of stress. I am certainly not going to be worrying about my possessions while diving or going out or get all stressed out over whether or not something will be there in the morning. I usually don't travel with a treasure chest full of gems, and everything else is insured and replaceable.

Once again....... it all comes down to perspective.

I will be coming down next week with my new Rolex dive watch. Staying at the Sunset Hotel, room 202. Hope to see you there.

You guys and gals are scaring the s___ out of me!

I have been diving, in Cozumel, for 7 years and outside of an occasional petty theft, there has been no serious crime committed either by (or to) a visitor. COZUMEL HAS A VERY STRICT CODE OF ETHICS.....ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO ITS' VITAL TOURIST TRADE.

I was so looking forward to my first trip to Bonaire with all of its' great shore diving. Needless to say, I am shocked to hear of the extent of petty theft and the eventual probability of more serious crimes, in Bonaire.
Don't get me wrong. I'm glad that there is discussion amongst BTs to inform others; I just wish I would have known about the increasing crime levels, prior to booking my vacation. I probably would have booked elsewhere. But then again, the world is not a save place.

What really befuddles me is what appears to be the real lack of action by Bonaire's government,its' businesses and its' people in addressing this problem. Crime is crime and if not deterred with strong consequences, it WILL increase...the only variable will be... WHEN.

Think of the message that Arabic countries send out. If you are caught stealing, they cut off your hand.

If Bonaire is going to continue to be a diving mecca (as I have heard so much about), then it is up to its' people and its' local businesses to address this issue strongly with government. And if government won't acquiesce to its' people, then the people and businesses need to "take the bull by the horns".

I, for one, would be glad to pay a slight bit more for extra security, peace of mind and loss prevention. And the second benefit would be a few more jobs for the local people. We all have spent a lot of money, directly and indirectly, to dive. Those of us, who are avid photographers have invested a great deal more.

I want to come home safe. I want my equipment to come home safe, barring the airlines ...LOL. I want my memories of ANY vacation to be just that......memorable.

For those of you, who have experienced Bonaire before, what do you think it would cost to hire a young person to "babysit" my truck, while I dive? Any ideas are gladly welcomed.

Eddie

Eddie..I suspect you're going to have a great time on Bonaire. Please post about your experiences when you return. Your sentence :

"What really befuddles me is what appears to be the real lack of action by Bonaire's government,its' businesses and its' people in addressing this problem."

If you've never been to Bonaire and spent time there, how do you really know what's going on? If all your knowledge comes from internet chat boards, (not exactly a realistic representation, again IMHO) I do suggest you get some real life experience before judging exactly what's going on and what the folks who live there are doing about it.

Comparing Mexico with it's inherent & rapidly growing crime situation to Bonaire is IMHO silly. Coz's sister destination Cancun just had several tourist intentionally gunned down. There is talk that the drug cartel waging war against the authorities is considering a shift in their war against the government to targeting tourists to disrupt this vital trade to Mexico. Another words, their tactics are morphing into a "hit 'em where it hurts" mentality. Just google "murder in Cancun or Cozumel" for a sample.

On Bonaire, you really don't need anyone to babysit your truck. Just follow the advice previously provided by many others here; windows down, nothing of any value inside.

Vince
I am assuming (and you know where that gets us)based on the volume of different BTs speaking their opinions and experiences, that crime is definitely on the upswing.

You are right that this a chat board and therefore has limited knowledge of crime deterring actions. We really don't know what the government and people are doing. But nonetheless, I am very concerned about the situation.

I am in a bit of a quandary has to whether to bring my extensive photographic equipment and computer with me or do I rent.

I have contacted my lodging and have asked for verification of their security measures.
I won't leave anything in my truck, but I will be pissed off if I come out of the water and find part/all of my truck missing.

PS: As for Cozumel,while it is part of Mexico, it is an island unto itself....literally. And Cozumel takes its' tourism EXTREMELY serious. If fact, the local government shot and killed several local Cozumeldrug dealers, who were selling drugs to locals and tourists, a few years back. While I'm not naive enough to believe that Cozumel has no crime at all now, I am speaking from my experience that after 30+ trips to Cozumel, I have never witnessed or heard of anything more than small petty thefts from cars. Of course, this doesn't include the earlier statement about killing drug dealers.

Eddie,

We do not have super expensive camera equipment, but we do travel with camera's for both of us and our computers. Knock on wood...we have never had a problem with any of our accommodations in 5 trips. Common sense is the name of the game!

Eddie..between you & me (and anyone else who reads this) betcha you're gonna love Bonaire! Be sure to post your trip report. But do me a favor & start it out with the following sentence..

You guys and gals WERE scaring the s___ out of me!
Let me know if I'm wrong.

I think there's a blizzard coming.

e.

Crime on Bonaire is very small compared to other places, especially in the West Indies. There's no place on Bonaire I wouldn't walk alone at night. Can anyone think of any other place in the world that this is true?

Also, let's remember that a lot of talk about crime here, as though it was commonplace, severely hurts the tourist industry that we have all enjoyed so much. So let's cool it right away.

Eddie -- we have been to Bonaire 7-8 times in the last 15 years or so and bring u/w photo gear (cameras, housings, strobes, etc.) and laptop computers. No problems to date, although we also abide by the unwritten rules that many have stated here ... windows down, nothing of value in the truck, etc. and store your valuables in the safe in your house/condo/hotel room and you shouldn't have any problems.

Have a great trip to Bonaire ... you will love the diving and being on your own schedule. Very relaxing.

"Also, let's remember that a lot of talk about crime here, as though it was commonplace, severely hurts the tourist industry that we have all enjoyed so much. So let's cool it right away."

I don't follow. It sounds like you're saying that crime on Bonaire is not common place but a passive look at the archives shows that the discussion of it certainly is.

Nevertheless, here's a question for consideration: Does the upcoming governmental change with dissolution of the Netherlands Antilles provide an opportunity to change the situation or is this an unknown at this time?